Fascinating meta, as always. I don't know where you find the stamina! ;D
I think Sam was right; they are stronger as a team. They can be used against each other, but I think they've learned enough to know where to draw the line...
I don't know, in this instance I think Sam was wrong, speaking strictly strategically. Really there is no reason at all for Sam to go anywhere near Lucifer, or give Lucifer any kind of a chance to get to him and, worse, get inside him. Honestly, that should be rule #1 in their playbook at this point. Dean is right in this case - it's got nothing to do with splitting up because they're stronger apart. It's simple mathematics - particularly seeing Sam's reaction to Lucifer's load of crap, acting like he's actually thinking about it and thinking it relates at all to he and Dean. If that's what I was seeing in that scene between Lucifer and Sam, then Sam needs to stay as far away from Lucifer as possible, regardless of the mission. He's not doing the home team any favors by getting rattled whenever Lucifer is within spitting distance of him.
Plus the Detroit time-line appears to have been escalated, as do other events related to The End (like the Colt is already found and already discovered to be worthless, and Castiel is losing his mojo faster and faster), so something is still off, and getting the band back together doesn't appear to be helping matters right now. I think perhaps it might have something to do with the fact that while they are physically back together, emotionally they're still miles apart. The teasing about wounds clearly still a little raw (and they should be), and the fact that Dean has absolutely nothing to say to Sam seconds away from their possible deaths would seem to speaks volumes about the distance still between them. At least, I hope that's what the writers are telling us. I gravitate on this point - thinking there's a method to the madness, or wondering if I'm just seeing something that the writers don't mean to be there.
It would be interesting to learn more about the Colt, and who/what the five things in Creation are that it can't kill - and why no one (except those five things?) seem to know that. Honestly, I think the writers just wanted to remove the Colt as a crutch and get past it, because obviously they have something else in mind to end this arc. So I'm not sure we're going to hear anything more about the Colt from here on out. Maybe, but it wouldn't surprise me if we don't.
I agree with the fact that Sam shouldn't have come.
It doesn't have anything to do with Dean and Sam being stronger when they're together. It has everything to do with the big picture.
Dean thinks that if he's killed by Lucifer, that's the end. I don't agree, because I'm sure the angels will just resurrect him as Michael's vessel. But, he knows that if Sam is killed, Lucifer WILL just resurrect him and then Lucifer has his chosen vessel. And Hell comes with him.
Plus, if Sam is with Lucifer, he's a lot easier to find.
Here's the thing--Dean is thinking like a military leader. A general. Strategically, you have to leave people at behind, for reinforcements, etc. Plus, if the enemy might be using one of your allies, you tend to keep that ally as far away as possible from this enemy.
Sam reacted by "You don't trust me!" It's not exactly THAT--but, yes, Dean still doesn't completely trust Sam, and no wonder why. That reaction means that you're not going to follow your leader without questioning every move he makes. It's a juvenile reaction.
Sam is still in the mindset of "I can do it myself!" He's still looking at the little picture. Dean is trying to look at the big picture.
So, I don't think Dean was wrong in saying that Sam couldn't go with him. I'm not even 100% certain that they are stronger together. When Sam's around, Dean worries about him. When Sam's safe, Dean can focus more on the job at hand.
Although, this job at hand, Dean had a lot more to worry about than Sam.
So, I don't think Dean was wrong in saying that Sam couldn't go with him. I'm not even 100% certain that they are stronger together. When Sam's around, Dean worries about him. When Sam's safe, Dean can focus more on the job at hand.
I don't think Dean was wrong in his logical assessment. But I also don't think he was wrong in giving in to Sam and letting him come, because I think it helped to mend a little more of the broken trust between them, and I believe the strength of their emotional bond - which still shows lots of fractures needing mending - is going to be vital.
I do think they're stronger together. Yes, the worry and distraction factor is there, but more important to my mind is the way they can ground each other when they're working together. They haven't recovered that harmonic resonance yet, and when it's not properly tuned, it can be as destructive as the flutter that took down the Tacoma Narrows bridge; when they're in sync, however, they magnify what's best in each other. And I'm relying on that. :)
Sheesh - the time's gotten away from me again. Oh-five-hundred comes waaaay too soon ...!
Hmm ... if you see my stamina hiding out somewhere, rat it out to me, would you? I think it's on the lam ...
I don't dispute the accuracy of Dean's position that Sam coming along was a stupid decision. Tactically and strategically, he was right; keeping Sam far away and hidden from Lucifer is logically the right thing. Emotionally, however - speaking in terms of the brothers' relationship with each other, which I think will be more essential in the end than simple logic - giving Sam the support of trust was the right thing to do. They're rebuilding their partnership by pieces, and this was one.
I've been betting for a while that all the fractures still existing between the brothers are going to split open sometime soon. The boil of their mutual resentments needs to be lanced and the poison let out so their healing can continue. I think we're both seeing something the writers mean to be there!
I'm not sure the Detroit timeline was accelerated. In The End, it wasn't clear to me when the big showdown in Detroit happened; only that it took five years for future Dean to learn the whereabouts of the Colt and be able to lay his hands on it. His line about not having spoken to Sam in five years could have been taken either as, he hadn't spoken to Sam in that long and Sam recently said yes to Lucifer in Detroit, or that Sam had said yes in Detroit almost that long ago and therefore wasn't himself to have let them speak. Don't know which way that worked. But this episode definitely accelerated the timeline of Dean, the Colt, and their intersection with Lucifer, and all of that - combined with Dean's having reunited with Sam - has clearly meant that the precise future we saw in The End won't come to be, at least not that way.
I'm betting we won't learn more about the Colt, and that you're right; this was the writers' way of removing it from silver bullet status as a way to win the war. But that just leaves all of us free to speculate and write about it ... *grin*
I think Sam was right; they are stronger as a team. They can be used against each other, but I think they've learned enough to know where to draw the line...
I don't know, in this instance I think Sam was wrong, speaking strictly strategically. Really there is no reason at all for Sam to go anywhere near Lucifer, or give Lucifer any kind of a chance to get to him and, worse, get inside him. Honestly, that should be rule #1 in their playbook at this point. Dean is right in this case - it's got nothing to do with splitting up because they're stronger apart. It's simple mathematics - particularly seeing Sam's reaction to Lucifer's load of crap, acting like he's actually thinking about it and thinking it relates at all to he and Dean. If that's what I was seeing in that scene between Lucifer and Sam, then Sam needs to stay as far away from Lucifer as possible, regardless of the mission. He's not doing the home team any favors by getting rattled whenever Lucifer is within spitting distance of him.
Plus the Detroit time-line appears to have been escalated, as do other events related to The End (like the Colt is already found and already discovered to be worthless, and Castiel is losing his mojo faster and faster), so something is still off, and getting the band back together doesn't appear to be helping matters right now. I think perhaps it might have something to do with the fact that while they are physically back together, emotionally they're still miles apart. The teasing about wounds clearly still a little raw (and they should be), and the fact that Dean has absolutely nothing to say to Sam seconds away from their possible deaths would seem to speaks volumes about the distance still between them. At least, I hope that's what the writers are telling us. I gravitate on this point - thinking there's a method to the madness, or wondering if I'm just seeing something that the writers don't mean to be there.
It would be interesting to learn more about the Colt, and who/what the five things in Creation are that it can't kill - and why no one (except those five things?) seem to know that. Honestly, I think the writers just wanted to remove the Colt as a crutch and get past it, because obviously they have something else in mind to end this arc. So I'm not sure we're going to hear anything more about the Colt from here on out. Maybe, but it wouldn't surprise me if we don't.
Reply
It doesn't have anything to do with Dean and Sam being stronger when they're together. It has everything to do with the big picture.
Dean thinks that if he's killed by Lucifer, that's the end. I don't agree, because I'm sure the angels will just resurrect him as Michael's vessel. But, he knows that if Sam is killed, Lucifer WILL just resurrect him and then Lucifer has his chosen vessel. And Hell comes with him.
Plus, if Sam is with Lucifer, he's a lot easier to find.
Here's the thing--Dean is thinking like a military leader. A general. Strategically, you have to leave people at behind, for reinforcements, etc. Plus, if the enemy might be using one of your allies, you tend to keep that ally as far away as possible from this enemy.
Sam reacted by "You don't trust me!" It's not exactly THAT--but, yes, Dean still doesn't completely trust Sam, and no wonder why. That reaction means that you're not going to follow your leader without questioning every move he makes. It's a juvenile reaction.
Sam is still in the mindset of "I can do it myself!" He's still looking at the little picture. Dean is trying to look at the big picture.
So, I don't think Dean was wrong in saying that Sam couldn't go with him. I'm not even 100% certain that they are stronger together. When Sam's around, Dean worries about him. When Sam's safe, Dean can focus more on the job at hand.
Although, this job at hand, Dean had a lot more to worry about than Sam.
Just my opinion.
Kat
Reply
I don't think Dean was wrong in his logical assessment. But I also don't think he was wrong in giving in to Sam and letting him come, because I think it helped to mend a little more of the broken trust between them, and I believe the strength of their emotional bond - which still shows lots of fractures needing mending - is going to be vital.
I do think they're stronger together. Yes, the worry and distraction factor is there, but more important to my mind is the way they can ground each other when they're working together. They haven't recovered that harmonic resonance yet, and when it's not properly tuned, it can be as destructive as the flutter that took down the Tacoma Narrows bridge; when they're in sync, however, they magnify what's best in each other. And I'm relying on that. :)
Sheesh - the time's gotten away from me again. Oh-five-hundred comes waaaay too soon ...!
Reply
I don't dispute the accuracy of Dean's position that Sam coming along was a stupid decision. Tactically and strategically, he was right; keeping Sam far away and hidden from Lucifer is logically the right thing. Emotionally, however - speaking in terms of the brothers' relationship with each other, which I think will be more essential in the end than simple logic - giving Sam the support of trust was the right thing to do. They're rebuilding their partnership by pieces, and this was one.
I've been betting for a while that all the fractures still existing between the brothers are going to split open sometime soon. The boil of their mutual resentments needs to be lanced and the poison let out so their healing can continue. I think we're both seeing something the writers mean to be there!
I'm not sure the Detroit timeline was accelerated. In The End, it wasn't clear to me when the big showdown in Detroit happened; only that it took five years for future Dean to learn the whereabouts of the Colt and be able to lay his hands on it. His line about not having spoken to Sam in five years could have been taken either as, he hadn't spoken to Sam in that long and Sam recently said yes to Lucifer in Detroit, or that Sam had said yes in Detroit almost that long ago and therefore wasn't himself to have let them speak. Don't know which way that worked. But this episode definitely accelerated the timeline of Dean, the Colt, and their intersection with Lucifer, and all of that - combined with Dean's having reunited with Sam - has clearly meant that the precise future we saw in The End won't come to be, at least not that way.
I'm betting we won't learn more about the Colt, and that you're right; this was the writers' way of removing it from silver bullet status as a way to win the war. But that just leaves all of us free to speculate and write about it ... *grin*
Thanks for coming by, and happy holidays!
Reply
Leave a comment