(Untitled)

[autopoetic]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that "spiritual achievement" is a contradiction in terms. In the most spiritual moments of my life, I've been struck by the impression that everything is exactly as it should be, and the idea of achieving anything becomes superfluous nonsense.

Comments

[vyedma]

I thought spiritual achievement was when you realized that everything was how it was meant to be.

[autopoetic]

I guess you could talk that way. But "spiritual achievement" makes it sound like you achieved something spiritual. I think you've achieved something allright, but that any kind of achievement is on the "mundane" or "worldly" level. The fact that I achieved some kind of awakening doesn't make me more spiritual... any holiness is always already there, I can just appreciate it more or less.

[stinklefritz]

I don't know, perhaps the point you're trying to make is a more subtler one which isn't hitting me.

but on a grosser, less subtle level: i think awakening or seeing or realising T/truth, is an acheivement, as you are grasping something (or perhaps not something), whether it be a higher state of consciousness, laser beams shooting from your eyes, or just plain awareness of your surroundings, and the ability to contemplate them. Being able to give that some sort of attention, focus, or a content little smile IS an acheivement, as it is something you have not had before. Or even if you once did happen to come across that realization, and then lost it, re-finding it is an acheivement.

perhaps the contradiction arises is your understanding or usage of the 'term' acheivement. or maybe i'm just a hippie. either way, i my humblest of opinions, i think a realisation such as this, would certainly fall under the heading of 'spiritaul acheivement'.

[autopoetic]

For sure, I think those are all achievements. But I think they're achievements from a practical perspective. It's good for you as a person. But from a spiritual perspective, it's ok if you don't have any grasp of the spiritual. The fact that there are people who don't "Get It" (whatever that means) is all part of the flow of things, and so the world hasn't become any more spiritual when someone does Get It.

I do think I'm being a bit funny with words here... there is a sense in which "spiritual achievement" works as a phrase. I just get the feeling that there is at least one sense in which it doesn't.

[stinklefritz]

i suppose it all depends on how you define spirituality and whether you differentiate it from the practical and mundane.

do you mean spritual in the "soul" way? wherein, you try to enhance or move your soul forward into a different status (i.e., a more pure state) from which it is in?

[autopoetic]

There are lots of ways to use the word "spiritual" I guess. The sense that I'm getting at here is the sense in which it really doesn't matter how pure your soul is, or what level of consciousness you're at. All that is very important in a practical sense, but in a "spiritual" sense, wherever you're at is ok.

[stinklefritz]

it seems, to me at least, that spiritual and practical are similar then. how would you distinguish the two?

[autopoetic]

That's a really good question. Usually I hate distinguishing the two. Let me think about it, and possibly come up with something by the time we have tea on tuesday.