I'm someone who watched, while not from the beginning of the show, but I started watching during the airing of S3 and onward and Dawn's introduction didn't hinder my watching experience at all. I loved her the moment she appeared on the screen. And I never understood people's hate for her. I can understand a level of dislike or disinterest, sure, but Dawn unfortunately got, and in ways still gets, some much passionate hate swung her way and I never quite understood the reasons why. I mean, in the early days it could've been just really intense hate (to the point where, during a song-along night for "Once More, With Feeling", people actively booed when Dawn's part came on....that is something that really sticks with me when it comes to the undeserved hate she got/gets within the fandom
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to the point where, during a song-along night for "Once More, With Feeling", people actively booed when Dawn's part came on....
Wow! That's really harsh. O_o
, it did create an interesting mystery surrounding Dawn's character, the dynamic that followed and the understanding of what it means to be a family. We got that with Tara in the same season, as well. Dawn might have just been created with false memories, but those memories are very real, the emotions and feelings attached to them were very real. And Buffy's instincts to protect her were very much real. And I think that is what the Monks were probably banking on, while protecting an object would've been one thing, but the human instinct to protect another human being with your life is another. And seeing that sisterly dynamic between Buffy and Dawn was incredibly special.
I agree! I liked their dynamic a lot. And I think that fans fail to realize that she is very real to Buffy. I read a comment somewhere asking why Buffy didn't just let her die, and why they couldn't have all
( ... )
Yeah, I wasn't that deep into the BTVS fandom during those days, but I remember the recalling of these incidents over the years and it just boggles my mind. But then, every fandom has a nasty side.
Because it didn't matter when she really became; she was always there to them.
Exactly. People who really wanted that were just people who hated Dawn and wanted her gone and forgotten from the show. I've noticed this as a pattern, though, in most shows where newer characters are introduced midway through a show and most fans will want to dismiss them for not being of the "original cast" and just want them gone in any way possible. And this is done mostly to female characters, unfortunately. Dawn sadly fits this for most BTVS fans who hated her since they used the "well she's not really real and can be disposed of" excuse as if that justified their hate.
Yup. I was the youngest kid in my family and could relate a little.
Same here.
On an interesting note, I dabbled in the Firefly fandom for a while, and
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But it makes me think that, while I do miss the sense of community fandom used to have, I so don't miss the fandom wars and the internalized misogyny that was more widely accepted back then.
Me either, and I think that's why it was even a thing to make fun of OCs. Don't get me wrong, there were some... serious Mary Sues. But some of the Mary Sue litmus tests (NOT the original, IIRC the original was fine) came across as "just don't write a female character." Which I found deeply problematic even then. And anytime a female character had feelings and opinions, she was portrayed as terrible. I definitely love that that's being discouraged now. Even flawed OCs weren't necessarily Sues (I had an OC who I will contend wasn't a Sue, but who also made no sense in the context of the Harry Potter universe), and the same goes for flawed female characters. You're right that it's not something to boast about now.
And honestly, as an original fiction writer it's a relief too, because back in the day it definitely crossed my mind, that my
( ... )
I also watched Buffy after it had all aired. While watching season one, I reached out to a friend who was a fan and asked why it was Buffy seemed to be an only child when I'd heard she had a sister named Dawn. The friend asked what season I was on, and I told him. He said, "Buffy is an only child." I said, "Does Dawn just appear out of nowhere, or is there some kind of explanation?" He said, "A bit of both," and asked if I wanted the details. I said I would find out by watching.
I always liked Dawn. I think there were writing problems: in The Real Me Dawn acts younger than 14, and I was disappointed that Dawn's key-angst was dropped after season 5. I know the monks turning the key into a human girl is an odd choice, but I love the storyline so much I do not care. It makes Buffy and Dawn's sisterly relationship unique.
I WILL say that I loved Buffy's horrible guilt and that whole dream journey Willow took. When I say I "loved" I mean, I realize it was heartbreaking, but it was heartbreaking in such a wonderful say.
I don't think Dawn's the worst . Granted I too didn't see the show until after it aired so I knew she was coming. But Is aw a lot of my own little sister in her in that my sister always acted a little younger than she was.
I think they were aiming for a meta commentary on Cousin Oliver characters: "Look, this character appeared out of nowhere and everyone acts like she's always been there even though the audience hasn't ever seen her before! Could there be something suspicious about this?" Props for the attempt to do something interesting with that tired idea, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I do agree that Dawn was written as an actual teenager (or younger) compared to the original Scooby gang and I can see that grating for some people.
Exactly! It was all so very intentional. But it was one of those things that worked for some fans, didn't work with others. That's the risk of taking a twist on an idea - sometimes people don't really see that's what you're trying to do, so it looks like you're just sinking into a trope. That being said, there are plenty of hints that this is intentionally Not Normal in Dawn's first episode, like when Buffy tells Riley that Dawn has been annoying her lately because "it's like she's always there." Ding ding ding...
And yeah, being an actual teen was also an odd narrative dissonance when we'd seen the Scoobies be a bit more mature than most teens.
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Wow! That's really harsh. O_o
, it did create an interesting mystery surrounding Dawn's character, the dynamic that followed and the understanding of what it means to be a family. We got that with Tara in the same season, as well. Dawn might have just been created with false memories, but those memories are very real, the emotions and feelings attached to them were very real. And Buffy's instincts to protect her were very much real. And I think that is what the Monks were probably banking on, while protecting an object would've been one thing, but the human instinct to protect another human being with your life is another. And seeing that sisterly dynamic between Buffy and Dawn was incredibly special.
I agree! I liked their dynamic a lot. And I think that fans fail to realize that she is very real to Buffy. I read a comment somewhere asking why Buffy didn't just let her die, and why they couldn't have all ( ... )
Reply
Yeah, I wasn't that deep into the BTVS fandom during those days, but I remember the recalling of these incidents over the years and it just boggles my mind. But then, every fandom has a nasty side.
Because it didn't matter when she really became; she was always there to them.
Exactly. People who really wanted that were just people who hated Dawn and wanted her gone and forgotten from the show. I've noticed this as a pattern, though, in most shows where newer characters are introduced midway through a show and most fans will want to dismiss them for not being of the "original cast" and just want them gone in any way possible. And this is done mostly to female characters, unfortunately. Dawn sadly fits this for most BTVS fans who hated her since they used the "well she's not really real and can be disposed of" excuse as if that justified their hate.
Yup. I was the youngest kid in my family and could relate a little.
Same here.
On an interesting note, I dabbled in the Firefly fandom for a while, and ( ... )
Reply
But it makes me think that, while I do miss the sense of community fandom used to have, I so don't miss the fandom wars and the internalized misogyny that was more widely accepted back then.
Me either, and I think that's why it was even a thing to make fun of OCs. Don't get me wrong, there were some... serious Mary Sues. But some of the Mary Sue litmus tests (NOT the original, IIRC the original was fine) came across as "just don't write a female character." Which I found deeply problematic even then. And anytime a female character had feelings and opinions, she was portrayed as terrible. I definitely love that that's being discouraged now. Even flawed OCs weren't necessarily Sues (I had an OC who I will contend wasn't a Sue, but who also made no sense in the context of the Harry Potter universe), and the same goes for flawed female characters. You're right that it's not something to boast about now.
And honestly, as an original fiction writer it's a relief too, because back in the day it definitely crossed my mind, that my ( ... )
Reply
I always liked Dawn. I think there were writing problems: in The Real Me Dawn acts younger than 14, and I was disappointed that Dawn's key-angst was dropped after season 5. I know the monks turning the key into a human girl is an odd choice, but I love the storyline so much I do not care. It makes Buffy and Dawn's sisterly relationship unique.
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I WILL say that I loved Buffy's horrible guilt and that whole dream journey Willow took. When I say I "loved" I mean, I realize it was heartbreaking, but it was heartbreaking in such a wonderful say.
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And yeah, being an actual teen was also an odd narrative dissonance when we'd seen the Scoobies be a bit more mature than most teens.
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