Illegal Immigrants don't take the jobs of legal americans, because they create as many jobs as they take, more or less. Is that about right?
You've got that very close to right. This article also examines the effect of legal immigration, though, so it would be fairer to say that immigrants in general don't take the jobs of native born Americans for the reasons you stated.
Therefore, it seems to me that the relationship of immigrants to jobs is irrelevant to the illegal immigration debate entirely.
Irrelevant, or a small point against increased restrictions on immigration (legal or illegal). The latter may be true because immigrants may have a small but significant net positive effect on the economy.
While I don't have numbers on this, I've also wondered if illegal immigrants weren't an even more positive addition to our economy than legal immigrants. I wonder that because they tend to be in income brackets that get benefits from the government in excess of the amount they would pay in taxes, but because they're illegal they get no benefits at all. It's a rather inhumane idea to consider, but it crossed my mind nonetheless.
So even allowing that all this is true, why should we allow people who broke our laws to come here to stay?
That's not the point of the article, really. It addresses one specific argument in the larger debate, and doesn't aim at making a larger conclusion about the debate entirely.
Do illegal immigrants take the jobs of LEGAL immigrants?
I see no reason to think that's true. The basic idea of the article is that each person who joins our economy - legal or illegal, native-born or immigrant - creates as many or more jobs than they consume, by consuming goods and using services in the economy at large.
Why should we favor illegals over legal immigrants?
Unless you buy into the inhumane argument I made above (which I'm not sure I buy, really), we shouldn't. As far as I'm concerned, we should reform immigration policy in order to more accurately reflect the realities of our economy and the geopolitical environment around us. That means that we need to allow those people who want to come here for a legitimate purpose to do so, and then focus on policing the border to stop criminals and terrorists from crossing it.
Most immigrants just want to come here to work, and they should be allowed to do so. They help our economy, and we allow them to share in the American Dream, so it's a win-win relationship. The ones already here should be given a way to become American citizens, so long as they aren't criminals and are willing to go through a more exhaustive process to demonstrate that (since, after all, they've already broken one law).
Yeah I really have no problem allowing more legal immigrants in, and making the process easier, so long as they are willing to abide by our laws. Legal immigrants pay taxes, after all, and that counter-balances the government services they use.
The real problem most conservatives have isn't with immigration, its with ILLEGAL immigrants. Where the confusion comes in is that you have to solve the illegal immigrant problem, or at least fight it more effectively than we are now, before you can make real progress in allowing more legal immigrants through. Coming here legally is ALWAYS going to be harder than coming illegally so long as we have an easily crossable border.
So then what incentive does an immigrant have to go the hard route? They have no inherent loyalty to our country, after all, or any particular incentive to follow our laws. They know that at worst, we will just send them home where they can immediately try to come back. And at best, our own laws tie the hands of our police officers from doing ANYTHING to them.
This law in Arizona is a step in the right direction, but on its own it isn't nearly enough. The federal government HAS to do its job in curtailing illegal immigration in order to make LEGAL immigration more appealing. THEN we can discuss making legal immigration easier and more streamlined, for those willing to put in the work to do so.
You've got that very close to right. This article also examines the effect of legal immigration, though, so it would be fairer to say that immigrants in general don't take the jobs of native born Americans for the reasons you stated.
Therefore, it seems to me that the relationship of immigrants to jobs is irrelevant to the illegal immigration debate entirely.
Irrelevant, or a small point against increased restrictions on immigration (legal or illegal). The latter may be true because immigrants may have a small but significant net positive effect on the economy.
While I don't have numbers on this, I've also wondered if illegal immigrants weren't an even more positive addition to our economy than legal immigrants. I wonder that because they tend to be in income brackets that get benefits from the government in excess of the amount they would pay in taxes, but because they're illegal they get no benefits at all. It's a rather inhumane idea to consider, but it crossed my mind nonetheless.
So even allowing that all this is true, why should we allow people who broke our laws to come here to stay?
That's not the point of the article, really. It addresses one specific argument in the larger debate, and doesn't aim at making a larger conclusion about the debate entirely.
Do illegal immigrants take the jobs of LEGAL immigrants?
I see no reason to think that's true. The basic idea of the article is that each person who joins our economy - legal or illegal, native-born or immigrant - creates as many or more jobs than they consume, by consuming goods and using services in the economy at large.
Why should we favor illegals over legal immigrants?
Unless you buy into the inhumane argument I made above (which I'm not sure I buy, really), we shouldn't. As far as I'm concerned, we should reform immigration policy in order to more accurately reflect the realities of our economy and the geopolitical environment around us. That means that we need to allow those people who want to come here for a legitimate purpose to do so, and then focus on policing the border to stop criminals and terrorists from crossing it.
Most immigrants just want to come here to work, and they should be allowed to do so. They help our economy, and we allow them to share in the American Dream, so it's a win-win relationship. The ones already here should be given a way to become American citizens, so long as they aren't criminals and are willing to go through a more exhaustive process to demonstrate that (since, after all, they've already broken one law).
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The real problem most conservatives have isn't with immigration, its with ILLEGAL immigrants. Where the confusion comes in is that you have to solve the illegal immigrant problem, or at least fight it more effectively than we are now, before you can make real progress in allowing more legal immigrants through. Coming here legally is ALWAYS going to be harder than coming illegally so long as we have an easily crossable border.
So then what incentive does an immigrant have to go the hard route? They have no inherent loyalty to our country, after all, or any particular incentive to follow our laws. They know that at worst, we will just send them home where they can immediately try to come back. And at best, our own laws tie the hands of our police officers from doing ANYTHING to them.
This law in Arizona is a step in the right direction, but on its own it isn't nearly enough. The federal government HAS to do its job in curtailing illegal immigration in order to make LEGAL immigration more appealing. THEN we can discuss making legal immigration easier and more streamlined, for those willing to put in the work to do so.
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