STUPID, STUPID PEOPLE FROM CLASS
The topic in my class this week has been reparations, and I'm sure that you all know how frustrating that can be. I did not know this, being a totally ignorant newbie on the topic of racism and racist ideology. So I started with a post with highlights from the discussions, but it all was soooooo fucking stupid that I just gave up. But tonight I got into it with everyone's favorite, Diane Priest. She called me a hateful, ungrateful little white girl and told me that "my forefathers" are probably rolling in their graves at how disrespectful I am. I have to admit - being called names over addressing White racism stings (hence the title), and I'm feeling sensitive about it, despite the fact that she's a rabid moron, frothing at the mouth with fear about how anti-racism = Whites losing their jobs and education, poverty and violence rampant, lowering of standards and morality and basically the end of the world.
So, naturally, I figured the best way to deal with it would be to mock her mercilessly on dot_race_snark. (x-posted in my own journal for my own reference).
Here is my response for the discussion. I would appreciate feedback as to whether I am demonstrating ungratefulness or hatred toward Whites.
I am not sure how I feel about reparations. I know that I disagree with the sentiment that, because people today are not directly responsible for the slavery in the past, they should not be responsible for reparations. Many aspects of our society were founded on the free labor that African Americans were forced to provide, and today we benefit directly from the progression of these institutions. Furthermore, reparations would not so much be compensation for individual instances of slavery and discrimination as compensation for the social stratification and residual racism that resulted from it. So I know that I don’t oppose them, and I believe that the African American community should decide what it will take to make up for not just past slavery but current stratification, oppression, and imbalance. I think that there is a scathing undertone in many people’s treatment of the issue of reparation that suggests that Blacks would do anything they could to cheat, take money they did not deserve, and depend on government handouts. Frankly I think it’s completely unfair to assume that if the government made a federal move to acknowledge slavery, even if the gesture was as shallow as monetary reparations, that Blacks would insidiously take advantage of it. Where does that idea even come from? If you ask me, it’s a direct result of media portrayal of African American character. I just can’t understand how people think racism no longer exists. It seems to me that it is so tightly interwoven into the fabric of our society that it never ends.
I believe that something absolutely needs to be done, and I think those in the dominant position of social power are responsible for not only correcting past wrongs and making them right today but also confronting their own privilege and working to dismantle unfair advantages while extending fair advantages to everyone. Conscious efforts and deliberate actions need to be made to combat negative stereotypes, institutional racism, and also to introduce positive images and roles and opportunities for Blacks until THEY feel that it is enough, not just until we feel better about it. The idea that they would take advantage of that JUST because they are black sickens me. Furthermore, reparations for African Americans do not mean that people who are in situations of social power have to give up their positions. It’s all about working to eliminate the unfair advantages and promote the positive ones to combat racial stratification.
Her response:
Sarah, just exactly what do you think Whites should do to resolve the the problem? Do you think it would be good for all of us to just say here were sorry for what happened to your people. And by the way it was only a select group that treated the Africans as slaves, and not all. It was whites that fought to have them released also! I just do not see you or anyone in your family saying here take my place we owe it to you. Step down and let one for one take your place and you take theirs. That is what I hear you saying, that whites should just step down or whatever and let them take our places in the world. I do believe that whites worked hard to get in the positions they are in. I do believe that African Americans are getting there. I watch NBC news in the morning and 2 black men, are big on that show and I love them. Look at Oprah Winfrey she overcame poverty and abuse and is now the richest woman in the world it can be done. But as long as we HELP, continuously apologize and give they will never overcome (majority that is), I know there are still some things that are not right but I think we all must admit it is ALOT better and going in the right direction. They have to get over what happened many many many generations ago and get educated. There are so many in high jobs today, channel 12 news today 1 black women were the news caster and weather caster, I think they are doing very well for THEMSELVES.. So unless whites just want to say okay we owe it to you, I will step down and you take my job. That is crazy! And that is all there is left to do as far as I am concerned.
There were WHITES in the 30's many many that were turned away from California starving and no jobs, they lost their lands and because of weather lost everything, so we have all had bad bad times, but we just have to overcome and do something constructive ourselves about it. 'The education is THERE for them. There are so many that have overcome and made it big in this country. But if they cry what happened and we continue to feel sorry they will never be able to overcome. I do believe with all my heart they can do it without Whitey giving them everything and still have their dignity. They need that dignity and feeling of accomplishment. I think it is a total injustice what we think they need, who the hell do we think we are. I do not have flowery words but I think you can understand what I am saying.
My response to that:
No, I don't think that Whites should just give up their jobs. I think that we should confront our own privilege and be mindful of it, and work to give up our unfair advantages while working to extend advantages that everyone should have. However, I, in direct opposition to you, believe that we should do SOMETHING about racism because WE are the perpetrators. You are probably thinking, "I am not racist" but I beg to differ. I would beg to differ with each white person in this class it they made that assertation. We all benefit from a system of white privilege, and not only do we do nothing to stop it, but hold deeply rooted beliefs that racial stratification is based on individual merit, which by extension means that minorities who dominate the bottom rungs of our society deserve to because THEY do not work hard or whatever stupid reason people give. Those attitudes spill over into society but we just don't recognize it because the process of maintaining racial hierarchy is designed to be invisible to us - it is a privilege to not have to think about it or confront it.
But I realize that you don't see things this way, and no amount of eloquent words will change that. Furthermore, even if a million people did see it that way it wouldn't change a thing for you. So I wish you my best in your studies and in your life but why should I even bother explaining these things when you are set on believing that they don't exist?
And her response back:
Well for one I never asked you to explain anything to me. Nor would I . You don't seem to have the answers at all just same old tune. But the question is what do you THINK should be done. And yes we do have privlage, I know you think it was unearned.....I bet your forefathers are rolling over in their graves, the hard work and sacrifices they went through so YOU could have an education and a better life, SHAME on you.
And if you think for one minute I don't care about the poor and oppressed, you have missed it all in your blind hate for whites. That is so sad.
I can't explain anymore to you either you ungrateful white girl. There is alot of hate in you for whites
Not so eloquently spoken just blunt and to the point.
I am sorry you disagree so hatefully, I hope whatever it is you want to see done here is just done fairly.
... Bitch.
Some more of her rabid raving:
I have to say alot already has been done, as far as educational oppertunities, discrimination boards to protect them at jobs etc. Do we need to do anything else, No it is now up to them to take advantage of everything available to them and others. The oppertunities are there. Life is a struggle for all and you have to let the past go and get on with life and the oppertunities available. I believe African Americans went through alot in the slavery and post slavery days. They had no oppertunities back then it was terrible. However it is time to get on with things and we must let the past go or none of us can go forward, so I say let them use their intellegences to further their educations and for the rest of us leave them alone so they can get on with their lives. I feel people inhibit their growth by pittying them for the past and keeping it going, it retards anyones growth to stay stuck in the past. They are an intellegent people let them use it and leave them alone. As I said the oppertunities ARE there let them use them.
As far as what we can do as a society about the negative racial images and stereotypical ideas that perpetuate in our society about African Americans, I think every group has groups that are stereotyped and that comes with certain behaviors, example Arian, KKK's etc it is not all that are like that but is a group within a group and to stereotype them is right. Stereotypical is just a word to set apart certain groups within groups. I am not explaining this real well. But peoples behaviors are what stereotype them. It is not all of a group but a group within, and not just African Americans am I talking about, I am talking about whites Latino's and Native Americans etc. These groups within the groups are what is stereotyped and usually rightfully so. It should never stereotype ALL in a group just the group within the group. Behaviors of all groups hurt the whole to some degree and how we can stop that is in my opinion impossible, there will always be jackasses that hurt a group as a whole but I can't see that ever coming to an end atleast in my lifetime.
Each and every individual no matter race/ethnic background must be accountable for their own actions, without someone pittying them, and doing everything for them, we can't make up for what was done in the past it is done, but to keep a group or individual in constant what can we do to make this up to you for ever is not going to do anyone any good much less that group or individual, they have to become strong on their own to have any dignity at all, not to let them do it on their own, that is demeaning if you ask me. It is like well you are so weak and downtroddin you need our help and without it you will never make it.
and one more:
Eric you hit the nail on the head, we have all the oppertunities in this country and draging things out from past atrocities will do no one good, and giving these minorities more and more is not a good thing let them get their educations and make it on their own, they were not in any way treated like their distant relatives and they have so many oppertunities, programs, education, etc, I just do not understand WHY this keeps going on and on when will it all end? I do believe if they get on with their lives and get educated things will all work out. But we can't do it all for them! It is time they do things on their own.
It literally goes on and on and on, just like this... She is SO GOD DAMN IRRITATING! And you know what else? FUCK THIS CLASS!! I really like this teacher but I am so disappointed that she did not impart any structure or promote critical thought to these discussions and they quickly escalated into a place for Whites to vent about how hard it is to be cast as oppressors and bitch about drunk Natives and Mexicans who extort money and send it to Mexico and Blacks who just keep whining about racism. I think there are a couple of Natives in the class but every other student is White and it shows in the class. I was thinking today about how, if there were black students in the class, I bet this fucking bitch would change her tune, I bet they all would because White racist assholes only feel comfortable kicking their shoes off and letting the deep-seated racist ideologies all out when other White racist assholes are around. But when there are people of color around, they all do a little fucking PC dance and say generic, non-offensive shit that is supposed to come off as actual thinking. And FUCK college students who cannot even formulate a SENTENCE let alone a critical thought about something that is relevant to their every day lives. AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!
She just responded to me again with this:
Well it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that African Americans don't need us to give them dignity and pride in their own accomplishments. Or is that what you are trying to get across here. They do need whitey to make them amount to anything?
You know you don't really know me at all, I live in an apt complex and I am the minority here. I am on disability, and live in poverty myself. I am going back to school in hopes of getting an education where I can earn a good living once again.
I get along just fine with my neighbors and they like me, I have no problems at all whatsoever. Isn't that strange you think I am a real callous racist. Well you are so wrong if you only knew.....But you keep reading honey and someday experience will tell you not to buy everything you read. Not to say that reading isn't a great thing to do it is, just have to use common sense when doing so.
and this is (HOPEFULLY) my final response to this obnoxious woman:
It's not about giving them dignity, they do not need Whites to dole out dignity like some charitable commodity. It is about confronting the fact that a racial hierarchy exists in this country and WHITES benefit from it. Blacks, Natives, Hispanics, and anyone who isn't white does not benefit from that hierarchy. No matter how strongly you believe otherwise, more than 90% of the richest, most prestigious positions in this country are held by white males. Why? You've never answered that question. So you can act like by pointing this fact out I am ungrateful and hateful, and you can attempt to subordinate me by calling me honey and implying that I am too inexperienced to have a valid opinion, but the truth is that you are incapable of having a conversation about racism and White privilege without getting extremely defensive, putting words into my mouth and attacking me personally. Now, I recognize that not everyone will go on to read more deeply into these issues. Not everyone will learn the ins and out of critical race theory. And that is a choice that you have the freedom to make, because racism does not affect you on a daily basis. But no matter how you and I resolve this disagreement, and no matter how Whites all over the country decide to view the issue of racism, the fact is that it still affects people of color all over this nation. If discussing that makes me hateful, then I'd rather hate racism than be racist.
I am willing to continue this conversation, but I won't tolerate insults and sarcastic demeaning talk. If you can't respond without it, please don't respond at all.
So, naturally, I figured the best way to deal with it would be to mock her mercilessly on dot_race_snark. (x-posted in my own journal for my own reference).
Here is my response for the discussion. I would appreciate feedback as to whether I am demonstrating ungratefulness or hatred toward Whites.
I am not sure how I feel about reparations. I know that I disagree with the sentiment that, because people today are not directly responsible for the slavery in the past, they should not be responsible for reparations. Many aspects of our society were founded on the free labor that African Americans were forced to provide, and today we benefit directly from the progression of these institutions. Furthermore, reparations would not so much be compensation for individual instances of slavery and discrimination as compensation for the social stratification and residual racism that resulted from it. So I know that I don’t oppose them, and I believe that the African American community should decide what it will take to make up for not just past slavery but current stratification, oppression, and imbalance. I think that there is a scathing undertone in many people’s treatment of the issue of reparation that suggests that Blacks would do anything they could to cheat, take money they did not deserve, and depend on government handouts. Frankly I think it’s completely unfair to assume that if the government made a federal move to acknowledge slavery, even if the gesture was as shallow as monetary reparations, that Blacks would insidiously take advantage of it. Where does that idea even come from? If you ask me, it’s a direct result of media portrayal of African American character. I just can’t understand how people think racism no longer exists. It seems to me that it is so tightly interwoven into the fabric of our society that it never ends.
I believe that something absolutely needs to be done, and I think those in the dominant position of social power are responsible for not only correcting past wrongs and making them right today but also confronting their own privilege and working to dismantle unfair advantages while extending fair advantages to everyone. Conscious efforts and deliberate actions need to be made to combat negative stereotypes, institutional racism, and also to introduce positive images and roles and opportunities for Blacks until THEY feel that it is enough, not just until we feel better about it. The idea that they would take advantage of that JUST because they are black sickens me. Furthermore, reparations for African Americans do not mean that people who are in situations of social power have to give up their positions. It’s all about working to eliminate the unfair advantages and promote the positive ones to combat racial stratification.
Her response:
Sarah, just exactly what do you think Whites should do to resolve the the problem? Do you think it would be good for all of us to just say here were sorry for what happened to your people. And by the way it was only a select group that treated the Africans as slaves, and not all. It was whites that fought to have them released also! I just do not see you or anyone in your family saying here take my place we owe it to you. Step down and let one for one take your place and you take theirs. That is what I hear you saying, that whites should just step down or whatever and let them take our places in the world. I do believe that whites worked hard to get in the positions they are in. I do believe that African Americans are getting there. I watch NBC news in the morning and 2 black men, are big on that show and I love them. Look at Oprah Winfrey she overcame poverty and abuse and is now the richest woman in the world it can be done. But as long as we HELP, continuously apologize and give they will never overcome (majority that is), I know there are still some things that are not right but I think we all must admit it is ALOT better and going in the right direction. They have to get over what happened many many many generations ago and get educated. There are so many in high jobs today, channel 12 news today 1 black women were the news caster and weather caster, I think they are doing very well for THEMSELVES.. So unless whites just want to say okay we owe it to you, I will step down and you take my job. That is crazy! And that is all there is left to do as far as I am concerned.
There were WHITES in the 30's many many that were turned away from California starving and no jobs, they lost their lands and because of weather lost everything, so we have all had bad bad times, but we just have to overcome and do something constructive ourselves about it. 'The education is THERE for them. There are so many that have overcome and made it big in this country. But if they cry what happened and we continue to feel sorry they will never be able to overcome. I do believe with all my heart they can do it without Whitey giving them everything and still have their dignity. They need that dignity and feeling of accomplishment. I think it is a total injustice what we think they need, who the hell do we think we are. I do not have flowery words but I think you can understand what I am saying.
My response to that:
No, I don't think that Whites should just give up their jobs. I think that we should confront our own privilege and be mindful of it, and work to give up our unfair advantages while working to extend advantages that everyone should have. However, I, in direct opposition to you, believe that we should do SOMETHING about racism because WE are the perpetrators. You are probably thinking, "I am not racist" but I beg to differ. I would beg to differ with each white person in this class it they made that assertation. We all benefit from a system of white privilege, and not only do we do nothing to stop it, but hold deeply rooted beliefs that racial stratification is based on individual merit, which by extension means that minorities who dominate the bottom rungs of our society deserve to because THEY do not work hard or whatever stupid reason people give. Those attitudes spill over into society but we just don't recognize it because the process of maintaining racial hierarchy is designed to be invisible to us - it is a privilege to not have to think about it or confront it.
But I realize that you don't see things this way, and no amount of eloquent words will change that. Furthermore, even if a million people did see it that way it wouldn't change a thing for you. So I wish you my best in your studies and in your life but why should I even bother explaining these things when you are set on believing that they don't exist?
And her response back:
Well for one I never asked you to explain anything to me. Nor would I . You don't seem to have the answers at all just same old tune. But the question is what do you THINK should be done. And yes we do have privlage, I know you think it was unearned.....I bet your forefathers are rolling over in their graves, the hard work and sacrifices they went through so YOU could have an education and a better life, SHAME on you.
And if you think for one minute I don't care about the poor and oppressed, you have missed it all in your blind hate for whites. That is so sad.
I can't explain anymore to you either you ungrateful white girl. There is alot of hate in you for whites
Not so eloquently spoken just blunt and to the point.
I am sorry you disagree so hatefully, I hope whatever it is you want to see done here is just done fairly.
... Bitch.
Some more of her rabid raving:
I have to say alot already has been done, as far as educational oppertunities, discrimination boards to protect them at jobs etc. Do we need to do anything else, No it is now up to them to take advantage of everything available to them and others. The oppertunities are there. Life is a struggle for all and you have to let the past go and get on with life and the oppertunities available. I believe African Americans went through alot in the slavery and post slavery days. They had no oppertunities back then it was terrible. However it is time to get on with things and we must let the past go or none of us can go forward, so I say let them use their intellegences to further their educations and for the rest of us leave them alone so they can get on with their lives. I feel people inhibit their growth by pittying them for the past and keeping it going, it retards anyones growth to stay stuck in the past. They are an intellegent people let them use it and leave them alone. As I said the oppertunities ARE there let them use them.
As far as what we can do as a society about the negative racial images and stereotypical ideas that perpetuate in our society about African Americans, I think every group has groups that are stereotyped and that comes with certain behaviors, example Arian, KKK's etc it is not all that are like that but is a group within a group and to stereotype them is right. Stereotypical is just a word to set apart certain groups within groups. I am not explaining this real well. But peoples behaviors are what stereotype them. It is not all of a group but a group within, and not just African Americans am I talking about, I am talking about whites Latino's and Native Americans etc. These groups within the groups are what is stereotyped and usually rightfully so. It should never stereotype ALL in a group just the group within the group. Behaviors of all groups hurt the whole to some degree and how we can stop that is in my opinion impossible, there will always be jackasses that hurt a group as a whole but I can't see that ever coming to an end atleast in my lifetime.
Each and every individual no matter race/ethnic background must be accountable for their own actions, without someone pittying them, and doing everything for them, we can't make up for what was done in the past it is done, but to keep a group or individual in constant what can we do to make this up to you for ever is not going to do anyone any good much less that group or individual, they have to become strong on their own to have any dignity at all, not to let them do it on their own, that is demeaning if you ask me. It is like well you are so weak and downtroddin you need our help and without it you will never make it.
and one more:
Eric you hit the nail on the head, we have all the oppertunities in this country and draging things out from past atrocities will do no one good, and giving these minorities more and more is not a good thing let them get their educations and make it on their own, they were not in any way treated like their distant relatives and they have so many oppertunities, programs, education, etc, I just do not understand WHY this keeps going on and on when will it all end? I do believe if they get on with their lives and get educated things will all work out. But we can't do it all for them! It is time they do things on their own.
It literally goes on and on and on, just like this... She is SO GOD DAMN IRRITATING! And you know what else? FUCK THIS CLASS!! I really like this teacher but I am so disappointed that she did not impart any structure or promote critical thought to these discussions and they quickly escalated into a place for Whites to vent about how hard it is to be cast as oppressors and bitch about drunk Natives and Mexicans who extort money and send it to Mexico and Blacks who just keep whining about racism. I think there are a couple of Natives in the class but every other student is White and it shows in the class. I was thinking today about how, if there were black students in the class, I bet this fucking bitch would change her tune, I bet they all would because White racist assholes only feel comfortable kicking their shoes off and letting the deep-seated racist ideologies all out when other White racist assholes are around. But when there are people of color around, they all do a little fucking PC dance and say generic, non-offensive shit that is supposed to come off as actual thinking. And FUCK college students who cannot even formulate a SENTENCE let alone a critical thought about something that is relevant to their every day lives. AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!
She just responded to me again with this:
Well it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that African Americans don't need us to give them dignity and pride in their own accomplishments. Or is that what you are trying to get across here. They do need whitey to make them amount to anything?
You know you don't really know me at all, I live in an apt complex and I am the minority here. I am on disability, and live in poverty myself. I am going back to school in hopes of getting an education where I can earn a good living once again.
I get along just fine with my neighbors and they like me, I have no problems at all whatsoever. Isn't that strange you think I am a real callous racist. Well you are so wrong if you only knew.....But you keep reading honey and someday experience will tell you not to buy everything you read. Not to say that reading isn't a great thing to do it is, just have to use common sense when doing so.
and this is (HOPEFULLY) my final response to this obnoxious woman:
It's not about giving them dignity, they do not need Whites to dole out dignity like some charitable commodity. It is about confronting the fact that a racial hierarchy exists in this country and WHITES benefit from it. Blacks, Natives, Hispanics, and anyone who isn't white does not benefit from that hierarchy. No matter how strongly you believe otherwise, more than 90% of the richest, most prestigious positions in this country are held by white males. Why? You've never answered that question. So you can act like by pointing this fact out I am ungrateful and hateful, and you can attempt to subordinate me by calling me honey and implying that I am too inexperienced to have a valid opinion, but the truth is that you are incapable of having a conversation about racism and White privilege without getting extremely defensive, putting words into my mouth and attacking me personally. Now, I recognize that not everyone will go on to read more deeply into these issues. Not everyone will learn the ins and out of critical race theory. And that is a choice that you have the freedom to make, because racism does not affect you on a daily basis. But no matter how you and I resolve this disagreement, and no matter how Whites all over the country decide to view the issue of racism, the fact is that it still affects people of color all over this nation. If discussing that makes me hateful, then I'd rather hate racism than be racist.
I am willing to continue this conversation, but I won't tolerate insults and sarcastic demeaning talk. If you can't respond without it, please don't respond at all.