The Bad In Each Other

[audreyii_fic]

Title: The Bad In Each Other
Author: audreyii_fic
Fandom: The Hunger Games
Rating: PG-13
Characters: Gale, Katniss, Prim, Peeta
Genre: Angst
Warnings: None.

Summary:
Gale and Katniss face each other as Prim and Peeta face the arena. THG AU.

Comments

[audreyii_fic]

I'm realizing in retrospect that I had a very bad day on Monday, then wrote this on Tuesday. Sorry for sticking everyone with my issues.

I agree about Prim. If nothing else, it's clear from the story that when it comes to her family Katniss is a very unreliable narrator. (She's really an unreliable narrator in general. I don't consider that to be a flaw of the book.) When added to the general stress of the Games and what I imagine was Haymitch's hardcore coaching, she's capable of a lot. People are capable of great things in life or death situations -- including coldness.

Also agreed about Mrs. Everdeen. On one hand, I'm sympathetic because she was suffering from a crippling clinical depression. On the other, her kids were starving. As unfair as it is to tell as sick person to "Get over it", when it comes to parenting, my sympathy wanes.

Peeta can't have been unmarked from being the unwanted and abused child. His mother is/was wretched. At the same time, my favorite baker isn't Peeta-the-Lover or Peeta-the-Martyr (though you're right about that not being the right term), it's Peeta-the-Manipulator. He's so *good* at playing the crowd. I loved that in the series, and obviously brought it in here. You're right -- he's extremely pragmatic about reaching his ends. (Playing people, by the way, is as much a part of growing up in an abusive household as undervaluing oneself is, I think. To survive you have to get *really* good at reading moods and saying the right thing to avoid punishment.)

Katniss is so small-picture. It's a flaw, but it's a sensible one (and it *is* presented as a flaw). When all that matters is the people closest to you, you're capable of blinding anger.

Gale... yeah. He did what had to be done (even if it was 90% instinct) -- and in my headcanon, that's what he was intending to do in THG. He just didn't get there fast enough. Peeta and Gale really are apples and oranges. (My objection to Peeta/Katniss wasn't until CF, and was mostly based in Katniss' perception of their relationship. He didn't make her feel like the lesser person, but she felt like the lesser person anyway, and that is no good.) Gale would never have doubted for an instant that he'd committed an unforgivable sin... and he would never have regretted or apologized for it. (As far as shouting recriminations goes, yeah, no. Katniss hadn't done anything that he objected to or didn't understand. It's different after THG, like with the "I don't want anything made in the Capitol" comment; I can't imagine what would be going through his head when he watched her twirl and giggle through her interview with Flickerman. Well, I can, but it's ugly.)

You're welcome, and I'm glad you enjoyed :)

[arysani]

(She's really an unreliable narrator in general. I don't consider that to be a flaw of the book.)

I agree. I actually love that - sometimes it is definitely a flaw in storytelling, but here I think it works for how we empathize with and understand Katniss - it becomes clear that she's a biased through her interpretations of others' actions and I think it makes her...more human, maybe?

it's Peeta-the-Manipulator. He's so *good* at playing the crowd

He really is, and I often see that cited as reasons why he's not a good person, because he lies too well. But the thing I keep coming back to is - he's not a sociopath; he was MADE to be this way, there is a REASON. It's why I wasn't surprised in the least (hurt, of COURSE, but not surprised) when he was so cruel in his recovery and the indication that he has relapses into that darkness after MJ. He's just as flawed as the rest of them, and while yes, I am a Peeta/Katniss person (MOSTLY later in CF and post-MJ where they are each other's support network - I honestly think that's the most important thing they have to give to each other), it always rubs me the wrong way when people glorify him. He's not perfect. His upbringing has made him a person with an edge that he keeps carefully hidden, but which I imagine he's been honing for a really long time. It's the "you can only kick a dog so many times before it bites you" idea. And he *is* smart - it's this, honestly, mentally ill combination of low self-worth, ability to manipulate (outcome engineer?), and close-held idea of love that makes him as effective as he is. It breaks my damn heart, and I think that's why I love him, if that makes sense?

My objection to Peeta/Katniss wasn't until CF, and was mostly based in Katniss' perception of their relationship. He didn't make her feel like the lesser person, but she felt like the lesser person anyway, and that is no good

I feel you - and I don't know if it's possible to change that, only because she goes into the relationship (and I mean that in the leanest sense - their acquaintance, actually) with this feeling of obligation to him. Worse, when she might be realizing that she's no longer obligated to him (because she saves his life, a life for a life, one might figure that makes up for it), she sees that if it wasn't for him, she would never be ABLE to pay him back, only digging the hole deeper. Then she feels guilty for not being what she thinks she "should" be to him. I think my favorite moments are when she is able to pare down her feelings and realizes that her desire for his survival ISN'T out of her obligations to him, but simply because she has become FOND of him in a way she can't really understand or articulate, but it's still there. It's complicated and I think that's why I wasn't overfond of the epilogue - I realize she wanted to point out that they would recover, live LIVES, but it felt too...neated up. I prefer the idea that we leave them still confused and unsure, but with hope.

{omg blah blah blah continued...}

[audreyii_fic]

Definitely more human. Well... at least in a fanwankable sort of way, if that makes sense. If it's actually poor character development, it's easy to explain away.

People glorifying Peeta miss the point entirely. Or maybe not, depending on the degree to which the story is allegory-focused and Peeta is meant to represent peaceful resistance. (Like I said, by the end of MJ I honestly had no idea what Collins was doing anymore.) Acting as a character, though, he was extremely flawed and that was what made him appealing. (I never quite bought the end-of-THG idea that he didn't know Katniss was acting in the arena, though. He was perceptive, and he clearly understood as well as she did how important it was to play the crowds, which I always felt he was doing as well. He might have overestimated the extent to which she had come to care about him, but he had to have realized she was playing it up. That felt weird.)

I really don't think it's possible to change the status of Peeta and Katniss' relationship by the middle of CF, maybe even earlier. I think I could have gotten over her initial feeling of obligation... but it's hard to imagine.

I can't stand the epilogue. Absolutely can't stand it. The kid thing is what gets to me. The "I'm never going to get married because I don't want kids" thing through the books rubbed me the wrong way, but I was willing to accept it as a Seam mentality: the poor can't afford birth control, therefore marriage automatically equals children in Katniss' mind. But that wasn't the case by the end, and the fact that Katniss openly admits she gave in to Peeta's desire for children even when she didn't really want any of her own... no. That's an automatic personal shut down for me.

{omg blah blah blah continued...}
There is no such thing as "blah blah blah" in my comment threads ;)

Re:

[arysani]

(I never quite bought the end-of-THG idea that he didn't know Katniss was acting in the arena, though. He was perceptive, and he clearly understood as well as she did how important it was to play the crowds, which I always felt he was doing as well. He might have overestimated the extent to which she had come to care about him, but he had to have realized she was playing it up. That felt weird.)

Won't lie, I read that as hardcore self-denial. He wanted it so badly that he convinced himself it was real, and was therefore really hurt (mostly by himself) when he was forced to accept that it wasn't, faced with it in a way he couldn't imagine around, if that makes sense?

But that wasn't the case by the end, and the fact that Katniss openly admits she gave in to Peeta's desire for children even when she didn't really want any of her own... no. That's an automatic personal shut down for me.

I agree. Best explaination I could come up with was that it is mentioned it took years before she agreed - so clearly it was a discussion they had often. I'm so conflicted because I know people can change their minds - my sister was vehemently anti-baby until about a year after she got married and now she's trying to convince her partner who was in favor all along that she has decided she's ready NOW. But at the same time, Katniss isn't my sister; and these are two people with, one might infer, a whole passel of mental illnesses between them. I sort of headcanon that it was someone OUTSIDE the relationship that changed her thinking. I know I've seen some fics where its Annie - in my headcanon, it happens rather accidentally. Annie, reminiscing about Finnick while her son scampers about, and how that child is her connection, sometimes its her reason to get up in the morning, etc etc triggers the reevaluation. And Katniss, whom we all know probably won't ever get over her need to cling to things she thinks she might lose, would rationalize it to herself that she could lose Peeta (maybe remembering a particularly bad relapse where he injures himself either on purpose or on accident and doesn't tend to his injury out of shock or something), and a child would be all she would have left. She might think of her mother, for whom her children WEREN'T enough to keep her going when her husband died, and be reinforced by her desires to not be her mother, to not make her mistakes. I honestly sort of imagine she doesn't tell Peeta she wants a child, and he skirts around her pregnancy like he's walking on eggshells because he "knows" she doesn't want a child, and he doesn't want to get hopeful because maybe she just hasn't found the right answer in her mother's little herb book.

...tbc

Re:

[arysani]

Just like I imagine they never got married, I imagine pregnancy is something they stop talking about after awhile, and that neither child is planned out or talked about, and each time she gets pregnant, Peeta is actually afraid of her and for her because he doesn't know if she will harm herself to keep the child from coming to term or just harm herself because she IS pregnant and doesn't want to be. Maybe I've thought about this too much in order to make it make sense on some level. Maybe I've had too many conversations about children with mentally ill friends who think every complication out to its last possible ending from when they find out they're pregnant to when the child graduates from high school, or wants to have THEIR own children. I don't know. I don't imagine the pregnancies would have very many light and happy moments (things like Peeta wanting to hear the child in her womb, or feeling it kick, wouldn't be something he would take for granted or perhaps even ask for, at the risk of sounding too desperate and making her feel guilty, or imagining he is guilting her into staying with him because now they have this child), and that the child-rearing when they're small and helpless would be particularly stressful for both of them, when they both need space and alone time to cope with themselves and their pasts and having kids doesn't really...work with that sort of necessary selfishness, if that makes sense? (I hate calling it "necessary selfishness" but I don't know what else to call it - they need to take care of themselves and their coping mechanisms are important to their continued adjustment to their lives, for crying out loud - I hate calling that selfishness because selfishness has such poor connotations.)

But I also imagine their children to be absurdly self-sufficient, as children are, when they realize (without having epiphanies, just KNOWING) that they need to care for themselves because mommy or daddy is sick.

And I keep thinking about "Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood" and how Siddalee describes her mother - all these traumatic experiences of her childhood which inform both the relationships she has with her parents as an adult and how she expresses herself. I imagine Peeta kept his episodes out of sight of his children better because he remembers being afraid of his mother and knows his children would be afraid of him were he to act the way he acts when he's having a bad day/moment around them, and he would desperately not want them to be afraid of him, so he would try SO HARD to make sure they weren't around. I think it would break his heart if he ever realized or felt he had frightened his children. But Katniss would instead be cold and distant sometimes and they would...work around it, just accepting that sometimes mommy needed help cooking dinner or doing laundry or whatever because she wasn't feeling well or somesuch.

I don't know - I think I rationalize it out as one more coping mechanism, in a sense, for both of them. I know it sounds harsh to call children coping mechanisms, but this complicated headcanon is the only way I could rationalize it out.

There is no such thing as "blah blah blah" in my comment threads ;)

This isn't a good policy to give me because I swear I natter on at you more than any other fic author. CLEARLY.

[arysani]

and in my headcanon, that's what he was intending to do in THG. He just didn't get there fast enough.

That's a headcanon I can respect and even adopt. He values her above her love for her family, even though their circumstances are remarkably similar, and I could see him taking her out of the equation. I started to write something where she was laid up and therefore missed the Reaping, and Peeta came back, but I got caught up in trying to imagine how he would get around in their world if he'd had his back broken resulted in both his legs having to be amputated above the knee. But my experience is with a grandfather who has one leg amputated above the knee and his mobility is pretty good (or was, before he started to go downhill, but he's 90 years old, I have to give him a break lol) and was when he was a young man, raising four kids with his disability. So I keep trying to decide if I really want to take both Peeta's legs because it worked for the in-the-arena part of the story to cripple him that way, but post-Games mobility when his Games were arguably one of the most disappointing in Game history and he's of no use to them in the type of role Finnick was pulled into because he's imperfect. I swear I've done so much research on spinal injuries and parapalegia I got myself tied up in knots. But trying to sort out how Katniss feels about him when arguably he is alive because Prim isn't, even though the two are not directly connected (because as you had Gale say, if Peeta was responsible, there would be no forgiveness from ANY quarter).

I can't imagine what would be going through his head when he watched her twirl and giggle through her interview with Flickerman. Well, I can, but it's ugly.

Yes. So much. It's this breech of trust which, especially considering the above mentioned headcanon, makes him even angrier because he DIDN'T stop it, DIDN'T fix it, so I imagine he could find more than enough reasons to make himself miserable over it. At the very least, I imagine him doubting himself in his estimation of her and doubting HER and being so ANGRY with himself for it but still, letting it eat away at him.

[audreyii_fic]

I want to see this fic of yours; I'm really interested in all the varying interpretations of how THG could go differently with the AU reaping possibilities. Hard on Peeta, though! I know next to nothing about parapalegia, so I'd also be interested in the biology lesson. Please finish :)

The way Katniss became not Katniss in the Games was hard enough on her; it had to be even worse in Gale's eyes. (Sort of the way Katniss was torn up by the way Prim was playing the crowds, even though rationally she should have known it was necessary for survival.) In some ways I think their relationship wasn't strained *enough* after THG.

[arysani]

In some ways I think their relationship wasn't strained *enough* after THG.

Hmm. Maybe he accepts her because he knows she needs it? Even if he's upset with her, doesn't agree with what she's done, part of him is clearly energized by her unknowing role as face of the rebellion, even early on. And knowing her as well as he does, maybe he knows she needs something to be familiar?

Though thinking of it like that, it makes one more person who sacrifices part of themselves to make Katniss happy, even though she never realizes it. Which is kind of depressing, really.