Still double checking on it...

[auddess]

I could have saved myself some time and a lot of money by just using the MIT open courses online to gauge my interest in further statistical studies.

...evidently I really do just like dealing with little logic problems on the job and really simple statistics, and I don't think I'd be interested enough in the details to get through 2 years of

Comments

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[quale]

I don't think you remember who I look down on.

I look down on those people who are grade grubbing anal retentive little snobs, e.g., those people who love following procedures and want to be praised because they are human computers. You were never that person.

You liked math in HS but not at tech for the simple reason that you were really good at it when you took it in HS but when you took it at tech you were only average.

Sadly, this is largely a self-fufilling prophecy. At every level of math the biggest hurdle to doing it is the belief that one is smart enough to do it well. If you believe that, no matter why, you can let yourself think creatively and try the false starts and incorrect ideas necessery to succeed. If you think you suck then you groan and feel, "I don't know how to do this," and waste all the time you spend staring at the problem.

Trust me I know. Ironically I am doubly aware because this is a big part of why I'm not a good math teacher. I think I'm not a good math teacher therefore I dislike the thought of teaching and thus when I try to teach I can't do much more than follow the rules (present the material etc..). To make it super ironic the net result is that I can tell people how to follow the mathematical rules but fail to inspire that belief in them that they can do the math and that it's easy so they are able to actually really master it.

Other than to try some adderal I don't know what to tell you. If I knew how to be magically confident at something because that itself would make you better then I would be a better math teacher.

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[auddess]

To be honest, I felt like that I could do the math if I wanted to...

I just didn't truly *want* to.

I also actually disagree with you that the biggest hurdle to doing math is the belief that one is smart enough. I've met plenty of people who I doubt have the brain pathways necessary to do highly analytical math.

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[auddess]

I meant abstract math, actually.

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[quale]

But why don't they have the brain pathways?

Math, or any other intellectual endeavor, requires you try to figure out what is going on. That means you approach the problem as a puzzle to be solved rather than some kind of annoying hurdle to be dealt with as quickly as possible.

Now if you think you are good at math then you naturally think, "Ahh, well I will figure out what's going on and master it." On the other hand if you think you are bad at math and doing it makes you feel stupid you go, "Uggh, what is the minimum I need to do to get the right answer" and you follow the algorithm and never think on your own.

Now it's true there are people who have so little inclination to figure things out that convincing them they are good at math won't help them. However, for most people the reason they don't try and understand what's going on is that doing math makes them feel frustrated and dumb.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anything hopefull or non-cynical. This is actually as depressing as it gets. I mean it doesn't matter if you boosted everyone's IQ or gave them fancy pre-school or whatever. No matter what tricks you pull some people will be better than others at math and this will make a large fraction of people feel dumb and frustrated by math. All one can do is shift a few opinions here and there at the edges.

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I mean doing math is a lot like being a decent public performer. Sure, it seems like some people are just too shy and untalented to be a good actor but the reason this happens is largely that some people have the confidence to develop their public performance skills and others don't.

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[quale]

Ohh, drugs like adderall could make a huge difference in this problem but we aren't ready yet to pass out pills to students so they have positive associations with math class.

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[quale]

Re: you, yes, you didn't want to but I think you would have continued to want to do so if you had continued to get the same kind of positive feedback as when you were in HS.

Don't get me wrong, individual interest plays a part too and if you had been interested in math for other reasons you probably would have done fine. However, one of the biggest determiners of interest is perceived ability.

This is why I always quote that study about more pro soccer players being born in the months that would make them old for their pee-wee league. They are naturally better than their peers so feel good about doing soccer so practice more and so forth.

Re: You Could Have Called Me

[auddess]

I see.

That's actually pretty interesting. As long as we know we're talking about shifting opinions at the edges we're on the same page.

Now if only I could learn to be interested in things.