all Loki all the time

[aubrem]

I'm trying to work out some things about Loki even though I'm only a little way into this. I'm sure fandom has been over everything with a fine tooth comb already but please bear with this newbie

Comments

[etrangere]

Yes, he's cruel and would torture kittens if that would make him feel better but he just needs to learn to believe he's loved, right?
Nnnnn, I don't think it's as simple as "just needs to learn to believe he's loved".
Also i don't think it's so much that Loki doubts that he is loved. I think it's a question of pride and self esteem. Loki needs to learn to believe that he is worthy, not loved; IMHO. And the issue is, by Asgardian values, he isn't, worthy. It's Thor who wields the hammer that bears the words "if he be worthy".
The other thing is that regardless many of those issues, I don't think Loki is a very nice person. He can be charming, but at heart he's a pretty ruthless, selfish, fickle and cruel person. He could be all of those things and not be a people destroying and world conquering villain of course, though!
And I think he does have the potential to not be entirely selfish.

He revels in being out of control. I don't think that means he's fully a pscyhopath though. He doesn't get off on causing pain - just in disrupting and causing chaos.
I don't believe that. I think Loki enjoys being in control, and I think he enjoys causing a little bit of pain (mostly as a proof of his control on people). Of course I'm a minority in this fandom when I see Loki more as a Dom (or a topping from bottom, or a submitting in order to manipulating the Dom) kind of guy. :p So most people would agree with you.
He loves kicking the anthill and watch all the ways the ants run around; but, he enjoys being in control of himself. Most of the time. Okay, he has a total mental breakdown in Avengers; and he was not in control of himself, and fuck knows what Thanos, the Chitauri and the Mind Gem did to his mind... there was a lot of effervescence and euphoria to his behaviour, but I still don't see that as natural enjoyment of it. (I don't think Loki was very IC in Avengers tbh. It can easily be fanwanked though)

He wouldn't be a "nice" guy if he learned to accept himself but maybe he could stop short of fratricide and invading other worlds?
Oh yes. He could even be quasi heroic.

[aubrem]

I agree it's that he doesn't believe he's worthy. I need to think more about whether he CAN think he's worthy in that world. I guess that's where I'm stuck in the fact that his nature is important and needed - chaos has its place and in "Thor" he IS seen as having an important place and being worthy of it - it's just him that doesn't believe it. I think.

I'm really not sure about the control thing. I don't see him as sub but I'm not sure he needs to be in control either. I'm thinking I like a give and take equal thing as far as sex goes for him. I need to think more on that. I haven't read widely yet so I don't know the fannish preferences yet. As far as general control in his plans though - it seems to me that he kept starting things that he couldn't predict the end of - in both Thor and The Avengers. And then he'd enjoy watching it play out and trying to ride it to his advantage. Like riding an avalanche or surfing a wave - testing his balance and skills.

Or not. I need to read and watch more.

[etrangere]

chaos has its place and in "Thor" he IS seen as having an important place and being worthy of it - it's just him that doesn't believe it. I think.
I'm not entirely to what extent we are supposed to think Loki was seen as having an important place or was depreciated for not having the right kind of skills in the Thor movie. There are a few disses, but it's hard to see them as more than teasing either. So maybe it's that Loki doesn't believe it. But I can't help but think there were reasons in Asgard's culture than also helped him feel slighted in various way. Not in a dramatic, actively abusive way; but stuff still.

The control thing is very much IMHO, it's a gut feeling I'm not sure where I can source (although it's a very strong gut feeling). I do think he enjoys creating chaos definitely; and I think he trusts himself to take advantage of it, too, as you say; but it's also a big part of the trickster concept to plays tricks that go entirely out of control and end up biting him in the ass, and I think that's what we see a lot in Thor and Avengers. Scheme that start small and simple and then grow utterly out of control (well in Avengers i believe we see the part where it's already gone utterly out of control and Loki is just trying to get ahold of a mess of situation that probably merely started with "save oneself from the weird, freaky aliens and that big purple guy")