(no subject)
I was having this conversation with Snaps, about the popular theory that FFVI and FFX/-2 take place in the same universe. We were trying to work out some CR-related stuff for DH, and we wound up with some interesting stuff on how to smooth out the main problems with the theory, and some interesting ideas on it in general.
So! I decided to share.
SHIRO:
Hmm... well, in the VI->X theory, which is supposed to chronologically come earlier?
SNAPS:
Mm, it's tricky. They're both in the way of the canon; but I'd say VI, because we have a society that has become mechanical, been struck down and is on the verge of becoming mechanical again; the VI canon can easily be distorted into the war of Zanarkand.
See, we theoretically have two VERY large societies warring (in this case, Vector "Zanarkand" and everywhere else) and they create a gorge in the world.
Now, that's the popular theory; the way *I* usually think of it is that FFX happens in the interim. We have TECHNOLOGCIAL SOCIETY OF YORE; then, the world falls apart and is rebuilt all simple like, and for thousands of years it stays this way, then VI current canon happens after X and Sin; causing a rebirth of the same principle. Because the societies of yore with the magitech technology and all that jazz are unnamed. We have the Al Bhed beginning technology and the cycle coming 'round again - so it's more like X and VI kind of overlap in 4 places.
You get what I'm talking about?
SHIRO:
Yeah. Definitely. It makes more sense that way, too.
Because, if what X-2 hints at is that during the events of X, there was another organization working to further the whole Operation Mihen thing, and they not only made use of advanced technology, but they had a lot of secrets, and nearly all of them were eventually wiped out, from inside.
SNAPS:
Yep!
And so though SIN is permanently defeated in X and in X-2 we are given a perfect world; I highly doubt that this world remains perfect. It too becomes corrupted by war eventually and falls into the cycle of the VI/X universe.
SHIRO:
The main problem in X/-2 is that the dead don't always stay dead. Generally, they stay dead in VI, but there is still the idea of things like the Phoenix summon, that can revive people - and Rachel DOES come back to life, albeit briefly.
SNAPS:
In X, the dead don't always stay dead is not really a metaphysical principle though; You have the unsent and such, but that's a symbolic gesture. Most of who are "unsent" are primarily just ghosts with unfinished business.
The use of the pyreflies to become fiends I'd think is just a metaphor for paranormal activity; it's easily assumed that the culture was just "primitive" though we do have physical evidence of pyreflies... but we also have pyreflies existing when Espers turn into magicite and when magicite is destroyed and when the world of the espers is invaded all humans who died within there dissipated into pyrefly-style light.
That's the only thing that pop theory can't reconcile, in the end, though is the Farplane.
Besides that, we MUST remember, Spira is tiny island. VI is WHOLE WORLD. I doubt a world is nothing but ocean save Spira.
SHIRO:
Spira is probably just one island because you're following the people who are from that island. They don't go travelling all over the world - just all over their 'world' of Spira. So Spira could easily be some random island in VI off in a corner.
And also, about the Farplane - without X-2, the farplane isn't all that hard to explain. It's essentially a manifestation of the thoughts of the people who visit the entrance to it in Guadosalam. It mirrors the dead people they want to see, but it isn't actually them. You can't actually go to the Farplane, and it exists more as a religious ideal. So instead of vanishing entirely when you die, you go to a happy place of flowers and glowing lights where all your already-dead family and friends are waiting for you.
But X-2 fucks everything up, since you actually do go to the Farplane.
Unless you consider X-2 to be a metaphorical journey to the Farplane - the world has already 'died', and so Yuna and her band of merry strippers can go there because it has become an extension of Spira.
SNAPS:
. . . I like that. A LOT.
SHIRO:
:3
So! I decided to share.
SHIRO:
Hmm... well, in the VI->X theory, which is supposed to chronologically come earlier?
SNAPS:
Mm, it's tricky. They're both in the way of the canon; but I'd say VI, because we have a society that has become mechanical, been struck down and is on the verge of becoming mechanical again; the VI canon can easily be distorted into the war of Zanarkand.
See, we theoretically have two VERY large societies warring (in this case, Vector "Zanarkand" and everywhere else) and they create a gorge in the world.
Now, that's the popular theory; the way *I* usually think of it is that FFX happens in the interim. We have TECHNOLOGCIAL SOCIETY OF YORE; then, the world falls apart and is rebuilt all simple like, and for thousands of years it stays this way, then VI current canon happens after X and Sin; causing a rebirth of the same principle. Because the societies of yore with the magitech technology and all that jazz are unnamed. We have the Al Bhed beginning technology and the cycle coming 'round again - so it's more like X and VI kind of overlap in 4 places.
You get what I'm talking about?
SHIRO:
Yeah. Definitely. It makes more sense that way, too.
Because, if what X-2 hints at is that during the events of X, there was another organization working to further the whole Operation Mihen thing, and they not only made use of advanced technology, but they had a lot of secrets, and nearly all of them were eventually wiped out, from inside.
SNAPS:
Yep!
And so though SIN is permanently defeated in X and in X-2 we are given a perfect world; I highly doubt that this world remains perfect. It too becomes corrupted by war eventually and falls into the cycle of the VI/X universe.
SHIRO:
The main problem in X/-2 is that the dead don't always stay dead. Generally, they stay dead in VI, but there is still the idea of things like the Phoenix summon, that can revive people - and Rachel DOES come back to life, albeit briefly.
SNAPS:
In X, the dead don't always stay dead is not really a metaphysical principle though; You have the unsent and such, but that's a symbolic gesture. Most of who are "unsent" are primarily just ghosts with unfinished business.
The use of the pyreflies to become fiends I'd think is just a metaphor for paranormal activity; it's easily assumed that the culture was just "primitive" though we do have physical evidence of pyreflies... but we also have pyreflies existing when Espers turn into magicite and when magicite is destroyed and when the world of the espers is invaded all humans who died within there dissipated into pyrefly-style light.
That's the only thing that pop theory can't reconcile, in the end, though is the Farplane.
Besides that, we MUST remember, Spira is tiny island. VI is WHOLE WORLD. I doubt a world is nothing but ocean save Spira.
SHIRO:
Spira is probably just one island because you're following the people who are from that island. They don't go travelling all over the world - just all over their 'world' of Spira. So Spira could easily be some random island in VI off in a corner.
And also, about the Farplane - without X-2, the farplane isn't all that hard to explain. It's essentially a manifestation of the thoughts of the people who visit the entrance to it in Guadosalam. It mirrors the dead people they want to see, but it isn't actually them. You can't actually go to the Farplane, and it exists more as a religious ideal. So instead of vanishing entirely when you die, you go to a happy place of flowers and glowing lights where all your already-dead family and friends are waiting for you.
But X-2 fucks everything up, since you actually do go to the Farplane.
Unless you consider X-2 to be a metaphorical journey to the Farplane - the world has already 'died', and so Yuna and her band of merry strippers can go there because it has become an extension of Spira.
SNAPS:
. . . I like that. A LOT.
SHIRO:
:3