On the subject of Christmas

[at_lien]

One of the most annoying times of the year is here. Rhyme. Christmas! I say it is annoying because my family gets annoyed when they ask what I want and I reply "I don't know". Now I have been spoiled from an early age and they constantly remind me of that, telling me how I have everything already. I don't want to make it seem like I am some

Comments

[anonymous]

I think the topic of christmas, and how one spends that time is subjective. I think calling the whole holiday out for being materialistic is a little unfair because i think it brings out some really nice things in people. Im not about to defend the countless richy mc'richers who really do spend the holidays loafing around in materialism, but i for one thoroughly enjoy the holiday season.
Theres a certain buzz in the air... kind of hard to explain the intangible, but its there for me and i cant explain it. I like to give gifts. I like putting thought into gifts. I generally dont like giving money or gift cards. I dont like telling people "hey i wanted to get you something, but i want you to think about it." I dont like wish lists, i dont like people who return gifts the next day. I truly believe in "its the thought that counts." I love giving gifts though. Now its idealistic in nature to want everyone to lead by my example, but i have a feeling if everyone did, there'd still be a "materialistic" stigma attached. Its hard to say who is giving and receiving for the right and wrong reasons (although a voice in my head says most people do it for the wrong), i try to assume the best in people and in the season in general.
Christmas technically means little to nothing about jesus, lets face it. In fact, christmas is a holiday based on the roman winter solstice. A lovely little holiday that included drinking binges and little boy concubines. Theres a laundry list of semantics you can get into to pick apart the history of christmas until its nothing but a joke of a holiday. These days though its IDEALLY a holiday based in the good intentions of giving and good will toward men (and women for the sake of being PC). I think even if people abuse its ideals... by lets say, thinking their wishlists are their right, instead of their privilege, or re-gifting crap for the soul purpose of maintaining some social status quo... you have to give christmas a break for at least having good intentions. There are a lot of bad things out in the world, and a lot of it is magnified this time of year because of the peaceful aesthetics in the background, but the bad stuff exists all year around. You have to give credit though, and appreciate the people who genuinely try to do the right thing, even if theyre the minority, and even if its through buying gifts. Not everyone buys gifts with empty intentions, and not everyone receives gifts with empty gratitude. Good people and good intentions exist.
You stay the good person you are, no matter how often it isnt reciprocated because thats what good people do. They give for no reason other than giving (whether its gifts, money, respect, time, etc). If you give with expectations of getting something in return, you venture into the realm of materialism. You're not materialistic for getting upset no one bought you dinner on your birthday. Youre human, youre allowed to have hurt feelings (and in your defense that was pretty inconsiderate). I doubt you'll end up going out of your way to be mean to people now so dont take this as a lecture, but at the same time you shouldnt let the lack of gratitude affect why you do the nice things you do. Like Jesse's father says in preacher, "you have to be a good guy, because there are too many bad ones." Its that simple, you do the right thing, because its the right thing to do. Whether the right thing is celebrating in jesus' name, or giving for the soul purpose of giving. No matter the semantics, or stipulations, it truly is the thought that counts.

erwin

PS: For the record, im not knocking the idea of celebrating the birth of christ, i was picking apart the facts to make the point that even outside christ and religion (which is technically irrelevant), you can celebrate christmas by participating in buying gifts if you have the right intentions.

[at_lien]

I am not saying it is entirely materialistic for the fact that I state the best part about it is being with ones family. And I am all for being creative, but its that we all expect gifts in the first place is what just bugs me. As far as the history goes, we don't relate it to the origins because thats not what we celebrate it as, we celebrate it in our western culture as the birth of Christ, so most Christmas celebrations are in the name of him, so you can't really bring what happened before that into the context of the conversation because we still try to base it around that and just abuse its meaning. I understand what you are saying and respect your opinion.

P.S. there is absolute truth.

[pino2]

i think wish list are cool for kids. yes if the kid gets everthing on that wish list that is lame but wist lists for kids are super exciting. as an older person you dont really need someone else buying you the newest game system cause you could save up and get it yourself it very rewarding to get things for yourself especially if you saved for a long time. so i guess im saying a gift that you give to someone or that someone gives to you should be something they couldnt buy...like a kiss and hug from someone a loved one or macaroni art. oh and not all gift cards are lame. like if you gave your girl a one free night of smokin passion card...expires whenever you want it to : ). honestly im not really getting presents from friends. i feel obligated to get them something back and at an equal price. if memory serves me i dont think i ever actually felt obligated enough to actually give a gift back. umm i think it is cool though to get gifts from your parents or grandparents just cause they are your parents and I think it kinda gives you that feeling like you a kid again and your parents get to feel like they still have kids...lets face it we are getting old as fuck i mean im starting to bald and shit. but i guess to talk a bit about christmas i dont really feel it anymore. i havent really felt the touch of christmas for around 4 or 5 years now. i do think christmas in at least the gift aspect is more for kids. like i think i would have more fun watching a kid go crazy ripping the wrapping off a basket ball then if i were to recieve some expensive electronic toy. actually i participated in a secret santa thing at school were everyone pitched in a gift then numbers were drawn for the order that people could pick gifts. a twist was added to the game where the next person that was to choose a gift could pick a new gift from the pile or steal a gift from a person who already picked one. it was really fun. There was a 10 dollar minimum for the gifts. of course people went over and a few went way under. I had super bad for awhile but it got stolen and i ended up with a candy bar. in the land of money i ended up with a shity gift considering the gift i purchased for the game was much more than the candy bar. i couldnt really get mad though because i dont know the financial position the the candy bar person and the laughs that the game created were awesome. the first gift that i had was actually a fragrance soaps kit. i got alot of laughs from that which made the day. i think now that we are older and material things that seemed so hard to attain as younger people are now just a couple of paychecks away. i find myself enjoying the simple things. Like have you ever been able to get small children to do super boring things and get them to think its the most awesomest thing ever cause you make it sound exciting like "hey lets clean this dog poop off the side walk!!!" and the kid sees how excited you are about it then they clean it...fucking awesome (fucking awesome is the new catch phrase of this christmas season) and just to let you know i never got a kid to clean dog poo poo off a side walk. but yea so i like little girls they make me feel so good

good night

[anonymous]

I know thats not what you're saying, but your biggest hang up, is that particular aspect. The materialism. "...that we all expect gifts in the first place"
I just think its possible to expect the exchanging of gifts in general, and no matter the reason, it still be ethically correct. Western culture's monopoly over "why" we celebrate, isnt a reason to accuse anyone of abusing the "meaning" of the holiday. The meaning is subjective no matter what the majority believes in.
But, for the sake of argument, lets say youre only speaking to the majority who celebrates in the name of christ. Anyone who celebrates for any other reason is irrelevant at this point. I believe even the christian majority cant necessarily be chastised for carrying out hundreds of years of tradition. The tradition started with what im defending, good intentions. You cant blanket gauge america's intentions. (even thoughi do, in fact i agree most people act materialistically during the holidays. So im not completely contradicting you.)
The gift giving and receiving process is carried out in christ's name, and in the name of 100s of other reasons. These days no matter the reason "why", the important thing is how good a person you try to be during the holidays (and all around). So the "why" is kind of irrelevant. No matter your creed, its more western tradition that dictates gift giving than western religion.
The idea of gift giving is ideally one where people expect to give rather than expect to receive... but are people who are expecting gifts bad? I dont think so. We expect turkey on thanksgiving, candy on halloween, eggs on easter... Its all tradition, and unfortunately no matter how, or why, or which gifts are received during which ever tradition, there will always be a materialistic stigma attached... But only because of all the receiving going on. If everyone one on earth gave, everyone on earth would receive. Giving is unarguably good, but receiving comes with giving. If people really appreciate, and care MORE about giving, i think every aspect of christmas, or Hanukkah, or Xmas is morally, and ethically okay.
Im not trying to contradict you either, I've just heard your rant before from other people and i dont think anyone should feel guilty for participating in any aspect of christmas. I know youre not trying to guilt trip anyone either (are you?), i just think it should be clarified that even if americans are largely spoiled, a tradition of giving (and receiving) doesnt deserve to be bashed. Its just not fair the minority who do it for the right reasons.

erwin

PS. there is only one absolute truth, and it involves the words "stu" and "massive-yule-log"

[at_lien]

I am not going to talk to baby ears because there is a minority who do it for the right reason, I am glad that there are those people. If you are that person then it doesn't apply to you. Aren't we supposed to speak our mind about problems we see in the majority? I think we will agree to disagree about our feelings on the holiday, but I do not feel like I shouldn't speak my mind. Me pointing out the faults of the majority to maybe try and have people look at theier actions a second time was a good thing last time I checked; that is usually how change happens. Just sitting quiet like you have advocated before usually doesn't get the job done. And I know I am not going to change anyones lives but I still have the right to speak my mind.

[anonymous]

Haha what? Im not trying to supress you, or tell you not to speak your mind. When did this become an issue of freedom of speech? Youre over reacting. I, in fact, agree with how you feel about the shallow majority. I just wanted to clarify that theres nothing wrong with the tradition of gift giving. I just think by placing blame on the expectation of gifts, or on the tradition in general (which you were), you (unintentionally) end up guilt tripping people who participate in christmas with good intentions. The problem isnt with gift giving, or receiving, or the fact that we do so sometimes in celebration in christ. Thats all i disagree with you about. Is that so unreasonable of me?
... And when did i advocate sitting quiet about issues? Is it impossible to to disagree with the cliche's of left wing romanticizing rabble rousing and still think freedom of speech is important? Just because i didnt like that douche bag's political guilt trip, doesnt mean i dont have any legitimate opinions. Just because my opinions are gray, and i can admit when the answer isnt as obvious as people make it out to be, doesnt mean i dont stand for anything at all. So yes, i do think you can criticize the faults of the majority all you want, but in turn im allowed to disagree with what you consider "faults."

[odderwin]

Haha what? Im not trying to supress you, or tell you not to speak your mind. When did this become an issue of freedom of speech? Youre over reacting. I, in fact, agree with how you feel about the shallow majority. I just wanted to clarify that theres nothing wrong with the tradition of gift giving. I just think by placing blame on the expectation of gifts, or on the tradition in general (which you were), you (unintentionally) end up guilt tripping people who participate in christmas with good intentions. The problem isnt with gift giving, or receiving, or the fact that we do so sometimes in celebration in christ. Thats all i disagree with you about. Is that so unreasonable of me?
... And when did i advocate sitting quiet about issues? Is it impossible to to disagree with the cliche's of left wing romanticizing rabble rousing and still think freedom of speech is important? Just because i didnt like that douche bag's political guilt trip, doesnt mean i dont have any legitimate opinions. Just because my opinions are gray, and i can admit when the answer isnt as obvious as people make it out to be, doesnt mean i dont stand for anything at all. So yes, i do think you can criticize the faults of the majority all you want, but in turn im allowed to disagree with what you consider "faults."

[at_lien]

You said something about not to bash gift giving or something so it seemed as if you were saying not to say what I said, thats where that came from, so I apologize for the mix up.

[kahrkillscain]

hold on - WHAT?

[sunshine_came]

There's far too many words on this page and I didn't read them all but I can't believe you guys have talked so much and thought so deeply about Christmas.

I like making and reading wishlists; I think it's fun to see what people want. Mostly I'm talking about older people not little kids because little kids want stupid things like Hannah Montana or Harry Potter and not awesome things like Legos or stuffed animals. Then it's REALLY fun to look back and read old wishlists to see how much stupid crap you wanted in the past.

Anyway, Holidays are fun but Thanksgiving is the best because you get to eat lots of good food and nobody cares because everyone's doing it!