Tsubasa Rumor Mill (181)

[ashura_sama]

Reading these spoilers made me remember every bit of the dreadful sensation I had when I read the spoilers for Holic 144. I want to kill Watanuki so dead for worrying us like that!

Comments

[cutesherry]

I was waiting for your version, though I didn't expect to see it so soon ^__^
Nice translation, a always!

About Watanuki : does it means that when he saw Yuuko in chap01 of XXXHolic it was actually his 2ND encounter with her? o__O
He had already came to her before?
Or was it later on? But that would make no sense since, since the very start of the manga, Wata didn't know about himself and why he was followed by monsters/ghosts...but the fact he paid for Syaoran suggest that he knew all about it and, I guess, his bond with him...but on the other side, he showed he had past memories in Holic : about the ghost child he met as a child, or the watch he gave to Yuuko in chap01, or the fact his father was a great cook...does it means then he remembered everything at some point and immediately gave it all as a payment for Syaoran? o__O
And for the same wish as Syaoran part too left me wondering : save Sakura? He sacrificed his past, his identity, his parents' memories for it? Then he knows her from before too? Or is their common wish something different? End the Dream?

And the original Sakura being 'destroyed' is pretty worrisome o__O But I decided to leave Sakura's case apart for a while (I've had enough...) and concentrate on WatanukixSyaoran story :)

[ashura_sama]

I think it's possible that Watanuki's loss of memory was gradual for some important reason that will come up later. He remembered his parents both before and after he first saw other Shaoran, but there was nothing particulary noteworthy about his reaction to him.

Watanuki -is- a pretty nice kid, so he would want to save Sakura if given a chance, but the timing is off -- as far as we know, he only really knows Sakura from when they met in the dream world. Either he actually knows her from before that, or this was the "heart like Shaoran's" acting...

Things don't look well to Sakura at all...

[morgif_kun]

Aw, poor Watanuki T_T
I might start to wait anxiously for TRC updates once again!

I didn't think about the possibility of him gradually forgetting his past; I was more under the impression that he already didn't remember anything since the beginning - but just started to question his memory loss recently.
Instead of the effects of his payment strenghtening, it feels to me like they're weakening and the more he meets with Syaoran and Sakura, the more he notices something's wrong with him.
So I vote for Yuuko and Watanuki to already have met before Holic's beginning! Probably in a whole another time/dimension :D

Thank you for the spoilers ♥

[ashura_sama]

The thing is, we saw Watanuki talking about his parents several times before mentioning it to Sakura, so I find it a bit unlikely that he wouldn't have realized it back then if the memory of their names had already been missing. Same thing with Chitose the apartment manager. And what about school? Or has he actually been "haunting" the school instead of being to classes like everyone else?

Instead of the effects of his payment strenghtening, it feels to me like they're weakening and the more he meets with Syaoran and Sakura, the more he notices something's wrong with him.
That's a pretty interesting idea, too. Kinda reminds me of the Matrix for some reason.

You're welcome! ^_^

[morgif_kun]

Disclaimer: I really should read Holic again, 'cause I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting important points XD
CCS Yukito talked about his grandparents too, and in the end they didn't even exist so I wouldn't put it past the effects of the bargain he made with Yuuko. I don't mean having false memories, just them being real but very very vague, and Yuuko's magic preventing him to notice they're missing.
IIRC, the only time we saw something of the parents was - um, when was it? We only saw their bloodied arms trying to help Watanuki out of some ordeal. DEFINITLEY need to read it again. We have no proof that he still had his memories at the beginning of the story. And that could explain why he didn't recognize Syaoran then.

Or has he actually been "haunting" the school instead of being to classes like everyone else?
Uh, I sure hope not T_T And then again he has interacted with other people without any spiritual power even outside Yuuko's shop (Kohane-haha comes to mind è_é), so that shouldn't be the case.

Where are Yuuko's contort explainations when we need them??

[vicks111]

Well, it's theorized that when the brain finds a memory gap, it usually tries to fill in the place of the lost memory with something that is probably not real.
I believe in that, so when for example, Clow messed with Kero's and Yue's memories, they both created a different memory of the event (though it was never confirmed if they were actually different from one another, or if Clow planted the same false memory on the two). The same goes for Yukito: Having no memories that he could access, he probably created some. Or Yue did, consciously for him.

I think Watanuki is in the same frame: since he lives alone, he creates a memory of his parents dying when he was young. Something that he has always possessed (the clock at the beginning) must have been from one of his parents, since he's always known it. Of course, by conviving with actual people made him realize that those memories weren't real. And the memory of his parents taking care of him when he was sick, seems to me as a body memory, rather than a "normal" memory, since they were shown in the flashback applying their hands over his forehead.

[socialgenius1]

Maybe it's because CLAMP has setting Watanuki up for a Yukito-like situation, and the danger to Watanuki lies in the fact that he's liable to surrender his life/existence if he angsts too much about not knowing his past & not having special bonds to people?

[ashura_sama]

CLAMP better give Yuuko an explanatory monologue of doom™ if that's the only reason. I want more WTF! (笑)

[cutesherry]

So you think 'Watanuki' is only one of his faces and he actually have another identity, and both of them cohabit in one body...? Two consciousness?
But while it would be a nice explanation (then identity1 lost his past while identity2 is disappearing little by little) that would go against Yuuko's affirmation that he lost his past memory : she talked about him as only one person...
Or your 'Yukito-like situation' is only limited to him disappearing and got nothing to do about a possible double self?

[socialgenius1]

No, no, I was simply referring to the similarity of Watanuki's current situation with that of Yukito when he realized his memories of his past were fake. We don't see much Yuki angst over it in CCS, but in Holic... well, d'you still remember 144? :)

[cutesherry]

Mmmhh...I mostly agree with morgif_kun's reasoning but the possibility of a progressive loss of his memory is also an option...the thing that feels wrong about it is the fact it's a 'price', a 'payment': is there such a thing as 'progressively taking away your memory' kind of price? o__O
And while Watanuki did show a few times he had past memories in XXXHolic, he never ever showed any trace of having any memories whatsover about his own powers, Syaoran or the whole Dream deal...which make me suspect he never had them from the very start of XXXHolic...
And him forgetting more and more about his actual life wouldn't it be about him 'disappearing' more then a price?

[ashura_sama]

is there such a thing as 'progressively taking away your memory' kind of price? o__O
Well, since there's a price such as "being my delivery boy indefinitely", then "progressively taking away your memory" is possible, I think. (笑)

The dream world -is- new, but doesn't Bone-kun count as memory about his powers?

[cutesherry]

It's true that the nature of the prices can be multiple and many times unexpected ^^;;

But it doesn't change the fact he had never had any memory of Syaoran since the very start, so there is no such a thing as 'progressively forgetting Syaoran' for example...or...could it be he never knew about him to start with?
But how could we explain the monstrously high price (his memories) he paid for 'their wish'? He must have known something at some point and he decided to make a *great* sacrifice for the sake of their goal! o__o

Bone-kun...this is *still* about him seeing ghosts, which we've known since the very start too...when I said 'power' I meant the whole Dream thingy, him going from one world to another and his bond to Syaoran ^^;;

[takoyakix]

What did Watanuki-kun *actually* wish for? It was something along the lines of "not being able to see ghosts" but I forgot >.> But seeing as how Yuuko seems to ALWAYS have another definition of the wish (the spirit who made a wish to "take the ghost away" ended up getting exorcised).made and grants it that way, shouldn't we refer to the wish made by Watanuki at the start of HOLiC?

So we know that Syaoran and Watanuki are very "close", and Watanuki was probably a all-knowing person like Yuuko before he lost his memories, and therefore made that wish.

I have this feeling that Watanuki was somehow raised by Yuuko and Clow when he was little. Clow had also said that Wata-kun was a "good child".