The most surprising moment of the debate for me:

[ashesofautumn]

Obama: ...he was hearing at some of the rallies that your running mate was holding, in which all the Republican reports indicated were shouting, when my name came up, things like "terrorist" and "kill him," and that you're running mate didn't mention, didn't stop, didn't say "Hold on a second, that's kind of out of line."

Comments

I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[fpb]

McCain couldn't apologize for something he had never heard for the very good reason that it never happened.
http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html

Or else, of course, you might say that the Secret Service are corrupt racist hacks in the pay of Karl Rove.... Nothing would surprise me in this election.

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[ashesofautumn]

Aside from the fact that I can't recall ever expecting Senator McCain to apologize for anything, an article about this coming out on October 16, 17, doesn't necessarily mean that Senator Obama (or rather his debate prep people) knew that the claims were completely unfounded going in to the debate.

Or else, of course, you might say that the Secret Service are corrupt racist hacks in the pay of Karl Rove....

Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I might say. You've figured it out.

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[fpb]

"You" here was meant in the plural. The parallel universe in which many people live is capable of this and more. Ever read the Daily Kos?

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[ashesofautumn]

I read the Daily Kos just about as often as I check out or Free Republic.

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[fpb]

Quite. But it is the source of choice for news about Republican candidates for most of the mass media. Kos "stories" are repeatedly quoted as facts by most TV networks and newspapers, even after they have been repeatedly refuted. One of the most infamous, for instance, that Sarah Palin's administration was supposed to have made victims of rape pay for testing kits, which has been disproved again and again, nevertheless resurfaced on the Boston Globe's editorial page, no less, only a few days ago. Those of us who support McCain and Palin are sick and tired of all the lies, and of the people who, like you and your friends, believe them unconditionally. You posted on a lie and your friends backed you up. I am not saying that you are responsible for it, but the fact that you took it for granted that it was true and that it had something to say about those of us who do not believe in Obama says something about the whole climate that is being fostered in the name of "change". That you of all people just implicitly believed the tale

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[ashesofautumn]

Those of us who support McCain and Palin are sick and tired of all the lies, and of the people who, like you and your friends, believe them unconditionally.

Ah, so this time the 'you' was wasn't meant in the plural. I find it interesting that I quote something Barack Obama says during the debate, and suddenly that translates to my belief in "all the lies" unconditionally.

I had already heard the claim that someone had shouted "kill him!" at a rally prior to Senator Obama's referene during the debate - I just found it kind of shocking in a different way that he said it during the debate.

That you of all people just implicitly believed the tale about McCain just horrified me.Uh, what tale has been told about McCain? This quote, this side point, has to do with an alleged supporter at a Sarah Palin rally in the context of a really dumb question during the debate about negative campaigning

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[fpb]

It's a very immature and unproductive perspective.

How nice of you to say so. However, the BBC and the New York Times, among others, disagree. The reason why I find the whole Palin-hatred thing horrifying, as I said in my blog, is that a mind-set is being fostered that is poisonous, prejudiced, anti-American, and that will take decades to correct, if it ever will. If McCain wins, most Europeans and practically every American who did not vote for him will be talked by the media into believing that his election was a racist triumph for the most backward elements in American society and one step forwards to Fascism. You may think I am exaggerating - all I can say is, I sincerely hope I am.

Re: I'm afraid you and your friends are the victims of propaganda

[ashesofautumn]

However, the BBC and the New York Times, among others, disagree.

Between me, the BBC, and the NYT, the only one I have any control over is myself. I can't see why you choose to argue points with me about what different media organizations do, when I have any laid any claim to, or defense of, said media outlets.

And between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden, I don't believe that a McCain victory represents the direction I want my country to continue along. I disagree with Senator Obama on many things, most obvious of which is his tax policy, but my perfect candidate does not exist and I view him as a better choice than the alternative. I voted for McCain in the New York Republican primary, but a few days ago I mailed in my absentee ballot for Obama.

However, I have no room for extremists on either end. The United States has managed to last this long, and I don't think that a McCain -or- Obama presidency is going to be its final death knell.