Meta rec and thoughts...

[ash48]

maenad's has written an excellent and fascinating meta on why Taxi Driver missed it's mark. Or rather, the difference between what makes a strong episode and a weak one. She doesn't bad mouth for the sake of doing so or rant about it being horrible - instead she looks at it critically and examines how the writing let down an idea.

On writing hell: a

Comments

[amberdreams]

I'm all for getting disappointment off our collective chests when it is done like this but it worries me when 'fans' just rant without purpose, or rather, without thinking.

Indiscriminate shouting just because their fave character has been (in their opinion) slighted in some way doesn't work for me. Whereas discussions like this enhance my enjoyment and actually make mediocre episodes more interesting.

Long live rational debate! :D

[ash48]

Word!

I love critical discussion that offers sensible reasons why things might not be working. Doesn't mean it's not working for all of us of course, but for those who like to figure out why something didn't feel right it's great to have those discussions.

Recent discussions have certainly made me appreciate an episode more. And at the same time have highlighted issues that I hadn't considered. I find it fun...

[cassiopeia7]

*butts in politely*

Indiscriminate shouting just because their fave character has been (in their opinion) slighted in some way doesn't work for me.

Emphasis on the "indiscriminate shouting" part. How on earth are you supposed to take people like that seriously? *clings tight to brainy fans like maenad*

[amberdreams]

Zactly. :D

[elsewhere91]

Thank you for the meta rec, i love reading meta and i have been reading so many reviews about this episode because this episode has left me feeling really confused.

While I'm here I do want to say that I think it's ok to rant and complain about the show. It doesn't mean we love it any less because we can see its faults. We love and connect to it in a way that's really hard to explain to anyone who doesn't. That's why we get upset when it doesn't meet our expectations or desires - or lets us down with poor writing or characterisations. Sometimes we need to get stuff off our chests and try and make sense of what they're doing (or not doing). I think it helps get past the problems and remember what it is we love about it. I'm pretty sure I'm in for the long haul (unless they permanently kill off one of the brothers or have them working separately all the time) so chatting and working it all out will help me make it through

I 100% agree.

Thank you x

[ash48]

You're welcome. maenad has a very thinky brain and makes some excellent observations in this meta. It really helped me understand why the episode worked on one level but didn't on so many others...

[harwhon]

i haven't read maenad's meta yet (i'm definitely going to in a moment), but the bit you quoted, i wholeheartedly agree on. i didn't like this episode much, and that mostly had to do with the way they created hell. maenad's version sounds so much scarier and scarring than the amusement park ride-version we saw in the show. and if you think about it, that's kind of how heaven worked in 5x18, it would make sense if hell operated in the same way: taking your memories and using them.

i have to say, though, i seem to be one of the very few who really likes season eight (aside from that last episode, that is). i think that it's a million times better than the previous two seasons, which were very "blah" - for want of a better word - to me. to me, it's like sam and especially dean make sense again. i find it really weird that most of the posts i see on my flist are rather negative. i wonder what i'm missing, sometimes.

[ash48]

Hi there,

taking your memories and using them.

Yeah, it would have been clever and pretty easy to accomplish.

It's great that you are enjoying S8. I felt like I was one of the few who enjoyed S7 (well, about 3/4 of it. I thought it was let down by the ending...), so I know how you feel. though I have enjoyed certain moments of S8. I think the MoL bunker is a stroke of genius and I'm loving the fact that the boys are on the same page. I think it's been weakened by some poor writing and some readjustment of canon (Sam wanting a normal life again for example), but mostly I've enjoyed it. My biggest beef is that they created a Sam that didn't look for Dean when he was missing. Fans have come up with some awesome and believable reasons why he might not have looked but the show never really addressed it - other than to say it's because of some agreement they had. I still haven't been able to swallow that bitter pill.

But there's been a lot of awesome stuff too so that's been heartening.
xx

[geckoholic]

Thanks for linking this and bringing the topic up. I agree that that it would've been a more, hm, sensitive way to show hell, and I especially agree about everyone having their every own hell. I mean, it's the same with heaven, right? And if I go out on a limp there, then I can still apply that to a degree. Maybe this sort of WAS what Sam thought hell was like. Like, outside of the cage. What he imagined after Dean's deal ran out, during those first four months? IDEK. I don't wanna think about that ep too hard, tbh. XD

[de_nugis]

Maybe when hell isn't really aimed at you, when you are a casual intruder, it is sort of generic and lacking in effect. What made Dean's hell and Sam's cage experience a matter of horror rather than severe unpleasantness was that there was a conscious destruction and deconstruction of their selves going on. It's not about the racks or CGI flames, it's about having Alastair or Lucifer peeling you and using your headspace. Hell works as hell when its not only subjective, but a deliberate and hostile playing with one's subjectivity.

[geckoholic]

Excellent point. I guess what miffles me the most about that hell is Bobby, and how they described his hell. Being locked into a cage and have imaginary versions of the boys taunting him? Severely unpleasant, sure, but it just doesn't jive with anything they've built up so far. Neither does his relatively stable state. But yeah, you're right. Of course one person's hell would, looked at from the outside, lack in effect for another person. But what I'm nodding along with even harder with your comment is that Sam and Dean both had that horned and specific kind of psychological destruction going on.

[ash48]

I really like the idea that this is what Sam imagined hell to be like so that's what he saw. Sadly, I don't think the writers were thinking like that but there's no reason we can't ;D People have come up with some great explanations about how hell and time works in the SPN universe and I'm never sure if the producers leave it open so we can make of it what we want or if they really just don't think too hard about it.

xx

[killabeez]

Thanks for the rec! Good stuff.

[ash48]

So glad you liked it. Helped me make more sense of why I thought there was lost potential with that ep.