They are both right. They are both wrong. They are both stupid and ridiculous and BEAUTIFUL in their utter utter love for each other. THEY ARE A MESS!!
Ha, yes. I've seen both reactions around (Sam is evil! No Dean is evil!), and I just have to laugh. No, they're really not. They're doing that thing where they fall into complete nervous collapse if they're away from each other for longer than it takes to buy coffee or interview a witness. You can't expect them to make sense at this point. It'll take another four or five episodes before they calm down enough to talk without fistfights or weeping. It's adorable that they still do that.
I loved how damn OBVIOUS it was that it was going to end with one of them being possessed and vomiting HOW THEY ACTUALLY FEEL! The fact that it was so CLEAR made me SO nervous. I desperately wanted it to be Dean AND IT WAS! (I was completely and utterly unspoiled for this ep. I hope the promo didn't give too much away).
At this point, whenever someone says 'the monster makes you act on your feelings', I half expect them to say 'Bye! Have fun killing it! We'll be in a bar three states over! Don't call us!' But they never do learn. :) And yes, the promo was very spoilery. I watched it in a moment of bad judgement. Dean with the gun, saying 'You should have looked for me'.
Aside from ALL THAT the thing I love MORE THAN ANYTHING is that the show is still all about THEM. It remembered ALL THAT STUFF from the past. (I know it SHOULD, but for it to actually do that was nothing short of fabulous!). As soon as Sam mentioned Amy I was like... holy crap. They are tying in past story lines. THANK YOU!
When that first came up, I was bemused, because what Dean says about Benny is exactly what he said about Amy - with some people you just can't, even if you really should, and someone should to do it for you. That's completely consistent, and Sam would know that. But then Dean started wailing about Sam abandoning him to spend time with Samuel and not telling him he had no soul, and I realised this was the mutual argument of 'I don't care whether I'm making sense, the point is that you're not supposed to spend time with people who aren't me', and then the whole thing made much more sense. So that was good. :)
I LOVE GARTH TO PIECES! What a fabulously quirky, grounded, smart and charming character. (I NEED to vid that guy!) I have a crush I'm sure!
I have mixed feeling about Garth. I agree with this about 90 per cent of the time. I like that he's bright and occasionally naive and generally gets by on his wits. I like variety in my hunters. I also like that we're essentially seeing Bobby before he was Bobby - it takes time to teach yourself all those languages and develop gravitas. Give Garth 20 years and he'll be there. But sometimes the humour they give the character makes me cringe. I'm nodding along happily with his arguments, and then they do that gag where he tries saying 'idiot' the way Bobby did, and I just want to crawl under my desk and stick my fingers in my ears, because no. That's not funny, that's awkward and inappropriate.
That said, I'm not sure that's an actual criticism as much as a problem with my sense of humour. I can't watch most of The Real Ghostbusters either, for the same reason.
(I think I still want more from Sam's back story and the flash back transitions were jarring)
Oh, yes. That was ... unfortunate. My response to the flashbacks themselves would be 'Oh, Sam', but then we'd go back to the present and Sam would pull this face. Something like: 'Huh. I zoned out for about four minutes there. Amazing I didn't get hit by a bus. Oh, well, back to it.' I'm not sure I was supposed to be giggling at those transitions.
But with Sam ... I'm mostly waiting for the stuff that I couldn't work out for myself. I mean, all this stuff is necessary, because some of the early spoilers were worrying, and even if we take it as a given that Sam was distraught they still have to show it as groundwork. But still, it's all fairly straightforward and I don't find myself surprised by what I'm seeing. But there are mysteries lurking in there somewhere. I just hope they get to some of them soon. :)
I've seen both reactions around (Sam is evil! No Dean is evil!), and I just have to laugh.
I've just made an edit to the post because I've seen the same thing. It's as though these guys should be making sense. The fact that they aren't is the whole point. And in fact, if fandom is ranting about what Dean said and what Sam did then the episode worked. It was all about how at odds they are with each other (and therefore have that road to travel).
I equally don't get it because when the boys are in tune with each other (aka S7) there's nothing but complaints about the season being "bro-less". *shrugs* I don't care. I had feels and therefore show still matters to me. The day I watch an ep like that and think..."whatever"...I know I'm past it - time to move on. (I'm SO not passed it!)
I'm am so glad I didn't watch the promo. I liked that I didn't know who was going to be possessed (though I figured Dean was the obvious choice).
And hee.. you'd think these darling boys would know if the monster they are going after is going to "reveal" something about them they would run a mile. (I'm glad they don't know they are in a TV show. *g*)
Re Garth. I think I was along for the ride. I think because the "idjit" line had a bookend... the first time it was cringe worthy and inappropriate and at the end it offered more poignancy so I went with it. I may end up being the only Garth fan but I really needed his POV of things. It WAS wrong and I think that's totally Garth. There's this mix of him have NO idea with him have a totally complete idea. (Hee...crushing much...)
Yikes... the flashback transitions were totally soap opera clunky. Talk about signaling. I blame the editor. And the director. The audience are smarter than that. We know about flashbacks - just get to it. Also... I'm not sure the flashback gave me any more information about Sam or Amelia. I figured she had issues and we know Sam's. I would have liked more of a surprise there. I didn't mind the "don't pity me" thing but yeah...it's the one thing I was less squeeful about.
I think I really hope there are still mysteries lurking there. But I have to say I think they aren't going to go there. I expected some "omg Dean...I tried to make a deal and I even drank blood" in that ep but I actually think they are honestly going with "I couldn't cope, I didn't have anyone, I didn't know where you were, I was lost so I moved on" story line. It's hard but maybe we have to accept that Sam CAN live without Dean. (arghh...did I just say that?!!)
I equally don't get it because when the boys are in tune with each other (aka S7) there's nothing but complaints about the season being "bro-less". *shrugs* I don't care. I had feels and therefore show still matters to me. The day I watch an ep like that and think..."whatever"...I know I'm past it - time to move on. (I'm SO not passed it!)
I think they could tell effective stories without this kind of conflict between them, but I'd certainly agree that at the end of last season they didn't, and I'm much happier with this than with stories that don't have them in them.
I don't know. I really don't get the fandom's tendency to blame one brother or the other. What amuses me is that there seems to be a fairly broad consensus that someone is evil, selfish and a bad brother, but there seems to be a fairly even split on which one that is. I just ... love both of them? :)
Re Garth. I think I was along for the ride. I think because the "idjit" line had a bookend... the first time it was cringe worthy and inappropriate and at the end it offered more poignancy so I went with it. I may end up being the only Garth fan but I really needed his POV of things. It WAS wrong and I think that's totally Garth. There's this mix of him have NO idea with him have a totally complete idea. (Hee...crushing much...)
It's great that you like him. I don't dislike him at all. I just have this reflex reaction to that kind of humour. I can't make it go away, and it gets in the way of my enjoyment of the story. In other contexts, it's fine. Garth being untroubled by his inability to drink more than one beer, or his enjoyment of civil war re-enactments? Charming.
I think I really hope there are still mysteries lurking there. But I have to say I think they aren't going to go there. I expected some "omg Dean...I tried to make a deal and I even drank blood" in that ep but I actually think they are honestly going with "I couldn't cope, I didn't have anyone, I didn't know where you were, I was lost so I moved on" story line. It's hard but maybe we have to accept that Sam CAN live without Dean. (arghh...did I just say that?!!)
Oh, I don't mean that, exactly. I don't know exactly what I do mean because, as I said, that's where the story goes beyond my ability to predict. But there are mysteries there. Why did Sam walk out on Amelia without a word? He talks about it to Dean like the whole relationship happened ages ago, and ended naturally, but it didn't. Who was that outside, watching his home?
I hope there are good, meaty answers to those questions, with some angst and trouble built in. Because while I think Sam-the-person completely deserves a year with his feet up, I also think that Sam-the-character deserves a rich and interesting story to match Dean's. It doesn't necessarily have to be directly related to Dean's, though.
Oh me too. There's no way I can see one right over the other. They come from different perspectives which makes them neither right or wrong. It's the fact that they have these different ways of coming at things that makes them so damn interesting.
I always think that if they truly hated each other they wouldn't care who the other was with or one would just leave and that would be that. The fact that Sam uses "leaving" as a blackmail point speaks volumes. It matters!
Why did Sam walk out on Amelia without a word? He talks about it to Dean like the whole relationship happened ages ago, and ended naturally, but it didn't. Who was that outside, watching his home?
Oh yes yes!! Sam walking out without a word is so intriguing. And we did get that "watcher"...oh YAY! I hope there's so much more to all that. *bounces* (I forgot about the watcher...)
And I TOTALLY agree Sam needs an interesting story to match Dean's. At the moment "running off to have normal" seems shallow. I am sure there's more there. If they manage to tease that all out over the whole season I will be impressed. :)))
'I don't care whether I'm making sense, the point is that you're not supposed to spend time with people who aren't me', This, 1000x this!!!! that's it in a nutshell!
Ha, yes. I've seen both reactions around (Sam is evil! No Dean is evil!), and I just have to laugh. No, they're really not. They're doing that thing where they fall into complete nervous collapse if they're away from each other for longer than it takes to buy coffee or interview a witness. You can't expect them to make sense at this point. It'll take another four or five episodes before they calm down enough to talk without fistfights or weeping. It's adorable that they still do that.
I loved how damn OBVIOUS it was that it was going to end with one of them being possessed and vomiting HOW THEY ACTUALLY FEEL! The fact that it was so CLEAR made me SO nervous. I desperately wanted it to be Dean AND IT WAS! (I was completely and utterly unspoiled for this ep. I hope the promo didn't give too much away).
At this point, whenever someone says 'the monster makes you act on your feelings', I half expect them to say 'Bye! Have fun killing it! We'll be in a bar three states over! Don't call us!' But they never do learn. :) And yes, the promo was very spoilery. I watched it in a moment of bad judgement. Dean with the gun, saying 'You should have looked for me'.
Aside from ALL THAT the thing I love MORE THAN ANYTHING is that the show is still all about THEM. It remembered ALL THAT STUFF from the past. (I know it SHOULD, but for it to actually do that was nothing short of fabulous!). As soon as Sam mentioned Amy I was like... holy crap. They are tying in past story lines. THANK YOU!
When that first came up, I was bemused, because what Dean says about Benny is exactly what he said about Amy - with some people you just can't, even if you really should, and someone should to do it for you. That's completely consistent, and Sam would know that. But then Dean started wailing about Sam abandoning him to spend time with Samuel and not telling him he had no soul, and I realised this was the mutual argument of 'I don't care whether I'm making sense, the point is that you're not supposed to spend time with people who aren't me', and then the whole thing made much more sense. So that was good. :)
I LOVE GARTH TO PIECES! What a fabulously quirky, grounded, smart and charming character. (I NEED to vid that guy!) I have a crush I'm sure!
I have mixed feeling about Garth. I agree with this about 90 per cent of the time. I like that he's bright and occasionally naive and generally gets by on his wits. I like variety in my hunters. I also like that we're essentially seeing Bobby before he was Bobby - it takes time to teach yourself all those languages and develop gravitas. Give Garth 20 years and he'll be there. But sometimes the humour they give the character makes me cringe. I'm nodding along happily with his arguments, and then they do that gag where he tries saying 'idiot' the way Bobby did, and I just want to crawl under my desk and stick my fingers in my ears, because no. That's not funny, that's awkward and inappropriate.
That said, I'm not sure that's an actual criticism as much as a problem with my sense of humour. I can't watch most of The Real Ghostbusters either, for the same reason.
(I think I still want more from Sam's back story and the flash back transitions were jarring)
Oh, yes. That was ... unfortunate. My response to the flashbacks themselves would be 'Oh, Sam', but then we'd go back to the present and Sam would pull this face. Something like: 'Huh. I zoned out for about four minutes there. Amazing I didn't get hit by a bus. Oh, well, back to it.' I'm not sure I was supposed to be giggling at those transitions.
But with Sam ... I'm mostly waiting for the stuff that I couldn't work out for myself. I mean, all this stuff is necessary, because some of the early spoilers were worrying, and even if we take it as a given that Sam was distraught they still have to show it as groundwork. But still, it's all fairly straightforward and I don't find myself surprised by what I'm seeing. But there are mysteries lurking in there somewhere. I just hope they get to some of them soon. :)
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I've just made an edit to the post because I've seen the same thing. It's as though these guys should be making sense. The fact that they aren't is the whole point. And in fact, if fandom is ranting about what Dean said and what Sam did then the episode worked. It was all about how at odds they are with each other (and therefore have that road to travel).
I equally don't get it because when the boys are in tune with each other (aka S7) there's nothing but complaints about the season being "bro-less". *shrugs* I don't care. I had feels and therefore show still matters to me. The day I watch an ep like that and think..."whatever"...I know I'm past it - time to move on. (I'm SO not passed it!)
I'm am so glad I didn't watch the promo. I liked that I didn't know who was going to be possessed (though I figured Dean was the obvious choice).
And hee.. you'd think these darling boys would know if the monster they are going after is going to "reveal" something about them they would run a mile. (I'm glad they don't know they are in a TV show. *g*)
Re Garth. I think I was along for the ride. I think because the "idjit" line had a bookend... the first time it was cringe worthy and inappropriate and at the end it offered more poignancy so I went with it. I may end up being the only Garth fan but I really needed his POV of things. It WAS wrong and I think that's totally Garth. There's this mix of him have NO idea with him have a totally complete idea. (Hee...crushing much...)
Yikes... the flashback transitions were totally soap opera clunky. Talk about signaling. I blame the editor. And the director. The audience are smarter than that. We know about flashbacks - just get to it. Also... I'm not sure the flashback gave me any more information about Sam or Amelia. I figured she had issues and we know Sam's. I would have liked more of a surprise there. I didn't mind the "don't pity me" thing but yeah...it's the one thing I was less squeeful about.
I think I really hope there are still mysteries lurking there. But I have to say I think they aren't going to go there. I expected some "omg Dean...I tried to make a deal and I even drank blood" in that ep but I actually think they are honestly going with "I couldn't cope, I didn't have anyone, I didn't know where you were, I was lost so I moved on" story line. It's hard but maybe we have to accept that Sam CAN live without Dean. (arghh...did I just say that?!!)
Awesome thinky episode.
xx
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I think they could tell effective stories without this kind of conflict between them, but I'd certainly agree that at the end of last season they didn't, and I'm much happier with this than with stories that don't have them in them.
I don't know. I really don't get the fandom's tendency to blame one brother or the other. What amuses me is that there seems to be a fairly broad consensus that someone is evil, selfish and a bad brother, but there seems to be a fairly even split on which one that is. I just ... love both of them? :)
Re Garth. I think I was along for the ride. I think because the "idjit" line had a bookend... the first time it was cringe worthy and inappropriate and at the end it offered more poignancy so I went with it. I may end up being the only Garth fan but I really needed his POV of things. It WAS wrong and I think that's totally Garth. There's this mix of him have NO idea with him have a totally complete idea. (Hee...crushing much...)
It's great that you like him. I don't dislike him at all. I just have this reflex reaction to that kind of humour. I can't make it go away, and it gets in the way of my enjoyment of the story. In other contexts, it's fine. Garth being untroubled by his inability to drink more than one beer, or his enjoyment of civil war re-enactments? Charming.
I think I really hope there are still mysteries lurking there. But I have to say I think they aren't going to go there. I expected some "omg Dean...I tried to make a deal and I even drank blood" in that ep but I actually think they are honestly going with "I couldn't cope, I didn't have anyone, I didn't know where you were, I was lost so I moved on" story line. It's hard but maybe we have to accept that Sam CAN live without Dean. (arghh...did I just say that?!!)
Oh, I don't mean that, exactly. I don't know exactly what I do mean because, as I said, that's where the story goes beyond my ability to predict. But there are mysteries there. Why did Sam walk out on Amelia without a word? He talks about it to Dean like the whole relationship happened ages ago, and ended naturally, but it didn't. Who was that outside, watching his home?
I hope there are good, meaty answers to those questions, with some angst and trouble built in. Because while I think Sam-the-person completely deserves a year with his feet up, I also think that Sam-the-character deserves a rich and interesting story to match Dean's. It doesn't necessarily have to be directly related to Dean's, though.
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Oh me too. There's no way I can see one right over the other. They come from different perspectives which makes them neither right or wrong. It's the fact that they have these different ways of coming at things that makes them so damn interesting.
I always think that if they truly hated each other they wouldn't care who the other was with or one would just leave and that would be that. The fact that Sam uses "leaving" as a blackmail point speaks volumes. It matters!
Why did Sam walk out on Amelia without a word? He talks about it to Dean like the whole relationship happened ages ago, and ended naturally, but it didn't. Who was that outside, watching his home?
Oh yes yes!! Sam walking out without a word is so intriguing. And we did get that "watcher"...oh YAY! I hope there's so much more to all that. *bounces* (I forgot about the watcher...)
And I TOTALLY agree Sam needs an interesting story to match Dean's. At the moment "running off to have normal" seems shallow. I am sure there's more there. If they manage to tease that all out over the whole season I will be impressed. :)))
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'I don't care whether I'm making sense, the point is that you're not supposed to spend time with people who aren't me', This, 1000x this!!!! that's it in a nutshell!
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