Comments | arylla: OMG Whores! A term paper inspired rant.

arylla

OMG Whores! A term paper inspired rant.

Jul 30, 2010 21:42

A couple of weeks ago I was telling two friends of mine about the incredulous comments a young gentleman made when I told him about my interest in gender history ("So what's your paper about?" "The role of women in Macedonian society." "You're gonna be glad once it's over and done with, right?" "Um, actually I think it's a cool topic." "... ( Read more... )

humankind: a bizarre species, burning bras, anybody can make history

Comments 19

pax_athena July 30 2010, 20:00:19 UTC

May I link to this entry? It's OK, if not. But I just had to ask. Because - people need to read this.

arylla July 30 2010, 20:02:52 UTC

Sure! It's open to everyone. I'd love to discuss it, and the more the merrier, right? :)

pax_athena July 30 2010, 21:18:19 UTC

Thank you!

And if I add my two pence of general thoughts - I find it interesting that you speak of narratives here. Because this is what they are - stories transferred from one generation to the next, very much like myths. I was brought up in a family which was very progressive in that regard, where equal opportunity was (mostly) given, though never explicitly discussed. And still - I'll sometimes catch myself (even myself, who should and mostly is aware! I don't even dare to speak about others) thinking these very thoughts or at least not recognizing them as what they are, because I have read and heard them so often that they get internalized without me ever wanting this. Osmosis or so. Which is scary.

arylla July 30 2010, 21:37:47 UTC

I don't exactly remember what that conversation was about, but at one point my father mentioned a woman (it might even have been Alice Schwarzer, but I really don't remember), and I responded with something snappy I thought was incredibly funny. My father then pointed out how catty that remark was and that I had done exactly what I'm always critizing other people for. I was so ashamed of myself. So yeah - I know what you're talking about ( ... )

kvistis July 30 2010, 20:08:57 UTC

With these things I often don't know where to start, because all this gender stereotyping makes me angry and confused (because I was personally brought up to believe that everyone is equal and that gender is nothing but physical). But it is interesting to view it from a historical perspective - and to see how little has changed at large, despite what we thing. I really enjoyed reading this, anyway.

arylla July 30 2010, 20:59:27 UTC

I've been raised by a man with the result that some gender norms just escape my notice and I'm always somewhat baffled if someone points them out to me. (That doesn't mean I don't enjoy things that are considered "girly". I admit it, I have an unhealthy love for frilly blouses. But I disgress.)

Despite that I've only started noticing and observing these things a couple of months ago, funnily enough because of another term paper, but since then I've been continually taken aback by how much these norms and narratives are still pervading our everyday life, mirroring past times we frown upon as barbaric and uncivilized. And ... it makes me so sad, because even though so much has changed in the last thirty years or so there's still so much work, so much that's fucked-up.

green_glitter_ July 30 2010, 21:14:10 UTC

You should submit this to Femnist Historians or something. If a blog like that exists!

arylla July 31 2010, 07:22:34 UTC

I'm not sure it does, actually. I think there are some blogs for feminist scientists and lots about popular culture/sociology/politics, but I've never come across historians. No love for the humanities, it seems!

green_glitter_ July 31 2010, 18:37:04 UTC

There is feminist philosophers, which is fab!
Oh and http://tenured-radical.blogspot.com/ !

arylla August 1 2010, 08:42:17 UTC

Oooh, subscribing to both, thank you! (Thank God for Blogspot. There are so many fantastic bloggers over there!)

Thread 5

silviarambles July 30 2010, 22:18:42 UTC

Reading this reminded me of a line from Bennet's History Boys: 'Can you imagine how depressing it is to teach five centuries of male ineptitude? ... What is history? History is women following behind, with a bucket'. It's Mrs.Lintott, the history teacher.

I don't know what to say to this because I agree completely. I'm not a historian, but I studied literature and god knows how many times I had to discuss things like these with people who were just too thick to understand.

arylla August 1 2010, 09:00:20 UTC

Haha :D Thank you, that one goes straight to my Amazon cart.

(Yeah, sometimes it's just ... wow, she just rescued the dynasty's fucking ass after her husband died and left her to rule a mess of a kingdom until her son comes of age, and all you talk about is how she likes jewelry and will go to hell for that? Really, chronicler dude? Really?)

maxwellgirl July 31 2010, 09:36:06 UTC

I just read the link on pax_athenas side and thought I leave a note too. I'm to busy to prepare for my flight to scotland tomorrow morning and settling my cats to a friends home that I missed your entry somehow. Sorry about that ( ... )

arylla August 1 2010, 09:30:45 UTC

Oh, Scotland! Exciting! :D I hope you'll have fun!

I think, like pax_athena said above, these narratives about how a woman should behave are so deeply ingrained in our minds that it'll take a lot of time to get rid of them for good. It's infuriating that your father expects that from you, though, and I understand why you're hesitant to visit him. D:

I've a funny little anecdote to share about gender role expectations, too; I don't know if you're familiar with the Bechdel movie test. In a nutshell, a movie passes the test if it has two named female characters who at one point talk to each other about something besides a man. Of course, most movies fail horribly. I was telling an ... let's say acquaintance about this. She looked at me, dead serious, and said: "Do you think that's bad? I think it's only natural that women would talk only about men. We all want babies, after all."

.......... I'd have cried if I hadn't been busy looking for my jaw that dropped to, I don't know, about the center of the earth.

I mean, I like babies. Babies are ( ... )

maxwellgirl August 2 2010, 19:01:21 UTC

I can't believe she sad that D:

I only can shake my head about woman like that who think being a mother is the best thing and practically a honor. I mean I know its a taff job and that I would faile so I have respect for mothers, but only for these ones who think of babies as something to top of there lifes because they have reached there goals. Not for woman who think thats all we are born for.

But she is practically right. With woman like her you can't talk about something else than baby stuff.

arylla August 10 2010, 11:32:59 UTC

Well, to each their own, I guess. If someone is fulfilled by being a mother? Cool, I don't judge. But to assume that can be applied to every woman on this planet? That takes a very limited imagination.