Concerning the pairing Jack/Will in PotC fanfiction:
I thought this would be a good time for me to voice my opinions on this rather sensitive topic, since my next PPC story has to do with J/W bad slash. Really bad slash. Now, I do not think that all slash is bad slash, but I find this particular pairing, Jack/Will, which so many authors find endearing, to be a bit ridiculous. This is my rather lengthy opinion on the matter. Please comment and tell me what you think.
It was touched off by this response on a reply from fandom_wank:
Am I the only one who's not seeing the "Jack/Will is illogical" point?
I mean, all of this may be that my senses and sensibilities have been completely programmed by years of reading slash, but . . . it was my impression that Jack leered at Will and made all sorts of innuendo-ish remarks towards him throughout the film. I found the sexual tension there to be palpable, and Will's stiff responses to be a great portrayal of "repressed and freaked out as all hell". And since when does the "deceased best friend's son" thing preclude relationship possibilities? Maybe I'm just twisted?
Also, Will and Elizabeth's One True Love? Debateable. I do not trust these "from childhood" One True Love things, they're like the Mary Sues of coupledom. So uninteresting. I'm a J/W/E 'shipper, myself, but that's more because I love both Jack/Will and Jack/Elizabeth.
Whoops, longwinded. Just didn't like that nobody else was pointing out plausibility when it comes to Jack/Will . . . I'm surely a fan of some pretty implausible pairings, but I've never considered this one of 'em. =P
Unfortunately, my reply is going to be even more long-winded. Sorry about that.
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I mean, all of this may be that my senses and sensibilities have been completely programmed by years of reading slash, but . . . it was my impression that Jack leered at Will and made all sorts of innuendo-ish remarks towards him throughout the film.
Jack leers at Will, gets in his personal space, and makes innuendo-ish remarks because he’s Jack. In fact, he leers at just about everyone and often stands way too close (e.g. Governor Swann at the end), but he makes twice as many romantic remarks to Elizabeth as to Will throughout the film. The only innuendo that I remember Jack hintinng at with Will concerns his finding and wooing Elizabeth--it didn’t have anything to do with Jack's relationship with him.
I found the sexual tension there to be palpable, and Will's stiff responses to be a great portrayal of "repressed and freaked out as all hell".
Again, I agree with what you saw, but not with your interpretation of it. Of course Will’s repressed-he thinks he doesn’t have a chance of having a relationship with the woman he’s been in love with for years. If you noticed, Will’s relationship with Jack isn’t much more open at the end of the movie than at the beginning. In fact, Will admits his love for Elizabeth to him and tells Jack his life story right off the bat. By contrast, Will doesn’t even feel right saying Elizabeth’s first name at the beginning of the movie, but he eventually loosens up, touching her, admitting his feelings to her, and then kissing her. Ergo, he is much less repressed at the end of the movie. As for Will being freaked-out as all hell…well, isn’t that the normal reaction when your sailing companion is an eccentric pirate who acts like a nutcase, professes to want to trade you in for a ship, and has you dangling over the ocean with a sword pointed at you?
And since when does the "deceased best friend's son" thing preclude relationship possibilities? Maybe I'm just twisted?
I don’t think it would be sole grounds for precluding a Jack/Will relationship, but it is something that might have a bearing on it. Jack is portrayed in the movie as a loner and an outsider, and Bootstrap might very well have been the closest thing he had to a family, or a brother. I think that he would feel very odd having a liaison with not only the son of a deceased comrade, but a son who looks just like his father.
Also, Will and Elizabeth's One True Love? Debateable. I do not trust these "from childhood" One True Love things, they're like the Mary Sues of coupledom. So uninteresting.
Uninteresting they may be, but that’s the relationship that’s clearly detailed for us in the movie. I don’t think their love is debatable at all. I doubt Will was lying to Elizabeth when he said, “I love you,” or when he said to Jack, “I’d die for her.” He spent the entire frickin’ movie trying to save her, against the law, against propriety and endangering his own life, because he cared about her! And she, in turn, rowed alone back to the caves of Isla de Muerta, risking her life to save him and lift the curse, and later went against her father’s wishes in being with a blacksmith. I also don’t think Will would break his unspoken promise to Norrington (to show the same care and devotion to Elizabeth as to the weaponry he crafts) and go running off with Jack, no matter what his feelings for the pirate captain.
With respect to Will and Elizabeth being the Mary Sues of coupledom…what did you expect from the handsome, noble, sword-wielding stock character that is Will and the beautiful, feisty, intelligent lass that is Elizabeth? That’s what they are, for better or for worse--the traditional, classic sense of One True Love. Anything else is AU. To be sure, a Jack/Will pairing might seem more interesting because Jack’s such an original and quirky character, but that doesn’t make a relationship between Jack and Will any more believable.
Even if Will did have feelings for Jack, how would they be together? One of the most ridiculous things that that particular vein of bad slash does is make Will go, “I’m a heroic character who involved himself in piracy only to rescue the woman I love! Oh, wait a minute, she’s not my love anymore. Whoops. But, hey, that Jack Sparrow doesn’t look too bad. Forget my strict code of ethics-think I’ll go off and be a thief on the high seas! Arr!”
The most common response to this is: “But, he’s a pirate-it’s in his blood!”
In response, I'm going to quote the immortal PotCsues: And when was there ever any indication in the movie that the sea called to Will at all, anyway?
I mean, is Will prone to heroics? Yeah. Most certainly. If he believes that he's doing what's right, protecting the innocent or his friends and loved ones and crap like that.
But the sea all of a sudden holds some great mysterious sway over him? Will seemed wholly indifferent to the sea to me. Not to mention the fact that he's lived on an island since he was twelve. If the sea so naturally called to him and his blood that much it seems like he'd have become a sailor or something before. Anything but wait until he's married (and has a kid) then run off and be free on the sea.
And this whole 'he's a pirate' thing? Talk about taking a quote out of context. The point of Elizabeth saying that in the end of the movie is that it's an ironic comment on the fact that just after she's become disillusioned with pirates after actually meeting some and learning that they're pretty much just honorless crooks, Will, the guy she was in love with all along, formerly a little too stiff, succeeds in becoming the heroic swashbuckler that she always imagined a pirate would be.
Heroic swashbuckler fits Will. Actual pirate, does not.
Now, onto Jack: I didn’t see any homosexual inclinations in the captain whatsoever. He makes overtures to Elizabeth, gets slapped by two strumpets and Anamaria! I didn’t see him flirt with any male in the story. Some people point to his unusual attire, but I think that Jack has long hair because he hasn’t been near any scissors or hygienic devices in years, wears kohl to protect his eyes from harsh sunlight and the glare off the ocean, and wears beads in his hair as mementos, not because he likes playing dress-up.
I can understand a Jack/Will pairing in an AU fic, though it would still take some MAJOR stretching of character for them both. But a Jack/Will relationship is not canonical and, in my opinion, quite implausible.
-Araeph, expressing the firm belief that perceived chemistry =/= feasible relationship
On a related note: I'm going to be a big girl and admit that I do have a grudge against this type of bad slash because so often it involves a dramatic rewrite of the characters. As when this happens:
“Please! Leave me alone! I admit! I love Will, but please, I must be free of his ghost!” Jack sobbed. “If only I could see him, hold him in my arms. I know he is happy with Elizabeth, and he loves her, but what about me? I used to be near him. And he left… he’s gone.”
*sigh*
I’m not particularly offended if Will/Elizabeth stories get a bit too sappy, since theirs is a “hopeless romantic” kind of relationship in the movie. (What offends me most in W/E fanfic is when they cheat on each other, which is actually a lack of romance rather than romance badly written.) And in none of those stories is Will raped or feminized, one of which I find just plain wrong, and the other merely disturbing. But Captain Jack Sap-arrow, sentimental pirate? Will the Strumpet, with crystals glittering in his eyes?
*gets out foreign language dictionaries and attempts to say "no" in as many tongues as possible*
It was touched off by this response on a reply from fandom_wank:
Am I the only one who's not seeing the "Jack/Will is illogical" point?
I mean, all of this may be that my senses and sensibilities have been completely programmed by years of reading slash, but . . . it was my impression that Jack leered at Will and made all sorts of innuendo-ish remarks towards him throughout the film. I found the sexual tension there to be palpable, and Will's stiff responses to be a great portrayal of "repressed and freaked out as all hell". And since when does the "deceased best friend's son" thing preclude relationship possibilities? Maybe I'm just twisted?
Also, Will and Elizabeth's One True Love? Debateable. I do not trust these "from childhood" One True Love things, they're like the Mary Sues of coupledom. So uninteresting. I'm a J/W/E 'shipper, myself, but that's more because I love both Jack/Will and Jack/Elizabeth.
Whoops, longwinded. Just didn't like that nobody else was pointing out plausibility when it comes to Jack/Will . . . I'm surely a fan of some pretty implausible pairings, but I've never considered this one of 'em. =P
Unfortunately, my reply is going to be even more long-winded. Sorry about that.
___________________________________
I mean, all of this may be that my senses and sensibilities have been completely programmed by years of reading slash, but . . . it was my impression that Jack leered at Will and made all sorts of innuendo-ish remarks towards him throughout the film.
Jack leers at Will, gets in his personal space, and makes innuendo-ish remarks because he’s Jack. In fact, he leers at just about everyone and often stands way too close (e.g. Governor Swann at the end), but he makes twice as many romantic remarks to Elizabeth as to Will throughout the film. The only innuendo that I remember Jack hintinng at with Will concerns his finding and wooing Elizabeth--it didn’t have anything to do with Jack's relationship with him.
I found the sexual tension there to be palpable, and Will's stiff responses to be a great portrayal of "repressed and freaked out as all hell".
Again, I agree with what you saw, but not with your interpretation of it. Of course Will’s repressed-he thinks he doesn’t have a chance of having a relationship with the woman he’s been in love with for years. If you noticed, Will’s relationship with Jack isn’t much more open at the end of the movie than at the beginning. In fact, Will admits his love for Elizabeth to him and tells Jack his life story right off the bat. By contrast, Will doesn’t even feel right saying Elizabeth’s first name at the beginning of the movie, but he eventually loosens up, touching her, admitting his feelings to her, and then kissing her. Ergo, he is much less repressed at the end of the movie. As for Will being freaked-out as all hell…well, isn’t that the normal reaction when your sailing companion is an eccentric pirate who acts like a nutcase, professes to want to trade you in for a ship, and has you dangling over the ocean with a sword pointed at you?
And since when does the "deceased best friend's son" thing preclude relationship possibilities? Maybe I'm just twisted?
I don’t think it would be sole grounds for precluding a Jack/Will relationship, but it is something that might have a bearing on it. Jack is portrayed in the movie as a loner and an outsider, and Bootstrap might very well have been the closest thing he had to a family, or a brother. I think that he would feel very odd having a liaison with not only the son of a deceased comrade, but a son who looks just like his father.
Also, Will and Elizabeth's One True Love? Debateable. I do not trust these "from childhood" One True Love things, they're like the Mary Sues of coupledom. So uninteresting.
Uninteresting they may be, but that’s the relationship that’s clearly detailed for us in the movie. I don’t think their love is debatable at all. I doubt Will was lying to Elizabeth when he said, “I love you,” or when he said to Jack, “I’d die for her.” He spent the entire frickin’ movie trying to save her, against the law, against propriety and endangering his own life, because he cared about her! And she, in turn, rowed alone back to the caves of Isla de Muerta, risking her life to save him and lift the curse, and later went against her father’s wishes in being with a blacksmith. I also don’t think Will would break his unspoken promise to Norrington (to show the same care and devotion to Elizabeth as to the weaponry he crafts) and go running off with Jack, no matter what his feelings for the pirate captain.
With respect to Will and Elizabeth being the Mary Sues of coupledom…what did you expect from the handsome, noble, sword-wielding stock character that is Will and the beautiful, feisty, intelligent lass that is Elizabeth? That’s what they are, for better or for worse--the traditional, classic sense of One True Love. Anything else is AU. To be sure, a Jack/Will pairing might seem more interesting because Jack’s such an original and quirky character, but that doesn’t make a relationship between Jack and Will any more believable.
Even if Will did have feelings for Jack, how would they be together? One of the most ridiculous things that that particular vein of bad slash does is make Will go, “I’m a heroic character who involved himself in piracy only to rescue the woman I love! Oh, wait a minute, she’s not my love anymore. Whoops. But, hey, that Jack Sparrow doesn’t look too bad. Forget my strict code of ethics-think I’ll go off and be a thief on the high seas! Arr!”
The most common response to this is: “But, he’s a pirate-it’s in his blood!”
In response, I'm going to quote the immortal PotCsues: And when was there ever any indication in the movie that the sea called to Will at all, anyway?
I mean, is Will prone to heroics? Yeah. Most certainly. If he believes that he's doing what's right, protecting the innocent or his friends and loved ones and crap like that.
But the sea all of a sudden holds some great mysterious sway over him? Will seemed wholly indifferent to the sea to me. Not to mention the fact that he's lived on an island since he was twelve. If the sea so naturally called to him and his blood that much it seems like he'd have become a sailor or something before. Anything but wait until he's married (and has a kid) then run off and be free on the sea.
And this whole 'he's a pirate' thing? Talk about taking a quote out of context. The point of Elizabeth saying that in the end of the movie is that it's an ironic comment on the fact that just after she's become disillusioned with pirates after actually meeting some and learning that they're pretty much just honorless crooks, Will, the guy she was in love with all along, formerly a little too stiff, succeeds in becoming the heroic swashbuckler that she always imagined a pirate would be.
Heroic swashbuckler fits Will. Actual pirate, does not.
Now, onto Jack: I didn’t see any homosexual inclinations in the captain whatsoever. He makes overtures to Elizabeth, gets slapped by two strumpets and Anamaria! I didn’t see him flirt with any male in the story. Some people point to his unusual attire, but I think that Jack has long hair because he hasn’t been near any scissors or hygienic devices in years, wears kohl to protect his eyes from harsh sunlight and the glare off the ocean, and wears beads in his hair as mementos, not because he likes playing dress-up.
I can understand a Jack/Will pairing in an AU fic, though it would still take some MAJOR stretching of character for them both. But a Jack/Will relationship is not canonical and, in my opinion, quite implausible.
-Araeph, expressing the firm belief that perceived chemistry =/= feasible relationship
On a related note: I'm going to be a big girl and admit that I do have a grudge against this type of bad slash because so often it involves a dramatic rewrite of the characters. As when this happens:
“Please! Leave me alone! I admit! I love Will, but please, I must be free of his ghost!” Jack sobbed. “If only I could see him, hold him in my arms. I know he is happy with Elizabeth, and he loves her, but what about me? I used to be near him. And he left… he’s gone.”
*sigh*
I’m not particularly offended if Will/Elizabeth stories get a bit too sappy, since theirs is a “hopeless romantic” kind of relationship in the movie. (What offends me most in W/E fanfic is when they cheat on each other, which is actually a lack of romance rather than romance badly written.) And in none of those stories is Will raped or feminized, one of which I find just plain wrong, and the other merely disturbing. But Captain Jack Sap-arrow, sentimental pirate? Will the Strumpet, with crystals glittering in his eyes?
*gets out foreign language dictionaries and attempts to say "no" in as many tongues as possible*