(no subject)
A man writes an incredibly powerful emotional post about how his apathetic views on abortion (he simply didn't much think of it) were fundamentally challenged, and how he became more pro-choice after he had to choose between saving the life of his wife and that of her fetus. His wife, due to what happened, was unconcious and so it was up to him to choose.
It's really a heavy-hitter, I reccomend it as reading to anyone who is apathetic about the whole concept, to read it and consider facing (or being a part of, or being the wife) that kind of a situation.
Most of the comments are supportive, understanding. A few people share their own experiences. And then we get this pile of crazy.
I’m glad your wife is doing well and I’m sorry for the loss of your baby.
As a father of a 1 yr old baby girl, I value the life of my baby more than anything else on Earth. She is the most important thing there is, I would have to say equal to my own wife.. my baby is a part of me, she is my own blood, my offspring, she is genetically closer to me than my own wife. My baby girl will love me more as she is growing up than my own wife ever will.. the love between a daughter and father is, in my opinion, greater than between a husband and wife. Agree with me or not, that is my opinion.. and my baby girl is only 1 yr old. All she can say is “da da”, but I know she loves me and I love her infinitely so.. my wife, I love also infinitely so, but sometimes it’s rocky, sometimes it’s up and down and we aren’t always as close as we’d like to be, but I will always love my baby girl infinitely. When my wife found out she was pregnant, which was an accident, her instant reaction was that she wanted an abortion. There we were in the bathroom with the home pregnancy test kit in hand reading positive for pregnancy and she gets all histerical, crying and raving on and on about how her life is now ruined and how she can’t go through with being pregnant, etc.. I told her it’s her choice, but if she kills my baby (has an abortion) that I would divorce her in a heartbeat and I would never speak to her again. I thank God that I was able to sway her foolish and immature, emotional and illogical thinking, and she decided not to kill our baby girl. We are still married to this day and my wife and I both love our baby girl more than anything. In fact, if we did not have our baby (if my wife never got pregnant), I am pretty sure we would not still be married… having the baby has brought my wife and I closer in our marriage and has given us something greater than our love for each other (which is very strong), but now we are a family and we mutually love our daughter. If I had allowed my wife to abort our baby or I had not cared enough to take a firm moral stand based on what I believe is right, then today (1 yr and 9 months later) I would have been robbed of the single greatest joy I have ever known in my entire life. My baby girl is the most beautiful gift God has ever given me and the one thing I am most thankful for. I would give my life in a heartbeat to save my baby girl and how any mother would hesitate to even think otherwise is beyond me. I would not only give my own life to save my baby girl but I would kill or spend the rest of my life in prison if I had to, or pay any price no matter how high, to protect the life and safety of my innocent child.
I strongly disagree with your view that the loss of your unborn baby is any different than your already born baby. I don’t see the difference. It’s just a matter of a time shift. What if someone had gone back in time and killed your baby girl while she was still in the womb, knowing what you know today? Knowing the joy of your born child? Why is it any different for one child than another? You are just trying to make an excuse so you don’t have to suffer as badly emotionally, you are trying to rationalize it. I don’t mean to be rude or harsh, but I think you are bending your thinking in your own favor just to make it easier to get over this loss. The fact is that born or unborn, you still lost a child and I don’t believe that it should be viewed as any less of a loss either way.
Fortunately you still have your wife and one child. It’s probably too risky for you and your wife to ever try having another child naturally, but there are so many children you can adopt, so there is no shortage of that option.
I am strongly pro-life (of the baby). I would always choose the life of my child over my own life or anyone else’s life, including my wife. Harsh? Think about it. What’s more precious, an innocent life of a child who has their entire life ahead of them or a grown adult who has had a fair opportunity to live their life and have whatever experiences they have been blessed to have?
In your case there was no way to save the baby, they tried, they did everything they could but because of the dilation it was an inevitable loss and I’m terribly sorry for that. But I congratulate you on your efforts to do everything within your power to at least try to save your baby, even to the point of losing your wife. And I applaud you for hesitating as to whether or not to abort.
I am not against aborting if there is no possible alternative to saving the mother.. but if the child can be saved at the loss of the mother then I would choose the child. There is no logic to losing both, but it’s a risk worth taking, to take it as far as you took it should happen in every case, in my opinion.
What I am strongly against is pro-choice people arguing that a woman can get pregnant (accidentally, by being careless and irresponsible) and have the simple option of going down to the abortion clinic and in essence, “making the problem go away.” This is murder in my belief. I feel that once there is a heartbeat, then that is a life. Killing a fetus with a heartbeat is murder, plain and simple. It should not be a choice any girl or woman can simply make without a very good reason (their own life is in danger). Even in the case of rape. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In fact, adding the killing of a baby (abortion) in addition to the horror of a raped woman only makes the overall tragedy even worse.
I don’t see your connection between the laws and being pro-choice. If the law says “every effort must be made in every case to save the life of the unborn fetus, and only in the case of the certain death of the mother would an abortion be permissible.” Then what is wrong with such a law? It would hopefully prevent at least some portion of the constant murder of unborn babies in this country.
It’s not a choice to murder an unborn baby for no reason at all, it’s a crime.
Questions About the Original Post
1. Does this give you a view of the problems of pregnancy and its danger you hadn't considered before?
2. What would you have done in that man's situation? An unconcious partner who is fading fast, you have the power of medical choice over them, you must choose whether your partner lives or the fetus gets a higher chance of survival.
Questions About The Comment Under the Cut
Pro-lifers: Do you share this man's viewpoint? Do you believe the life of a fetus should be valued more highly than that of the pregnant woman? Do you consider his viewpoint valid, even if it's not yours? Do you see anything problematic about his viewpoint in regards to the pro-life movement? Do you see this kind of attitude often in the pro-life movement? (To women) Would you continue to stay with a partner who demanded you give birth against your will, and threatened to leave you if you didn't? (To men and those who would not be the one giving birth) Would you demand your partner continue a pregnancy against their will and threaten them if they refused?
Pro-choicers: Do you see this kind of attitude and apathy often in the pro-life movement, as far as you are concerned? Do you see any signs of a controlling or possibly emotionally abusive personality in his comment? (To Women) Would you continue to stay with a partner who demanded you give birth against your will? (To men & those not being the birth-giving partner) How woudl you respond to your partner reacting that way to finding out she was pregnant if you yourself wanted the fetus? Would you insist she carry it to term?
1. Not really. I've already dealt with that reality in my life (although it wasn't me pregnant, but a friend's mother) and I can safely and confidently say that I and my partner (and, since I am currently unmarried, my mother-who has power of attorney right now if I'm unconcious) have discussed it and everyone who needs to know already knows that I would rather survive and attempt birth or adoption at a later time.
2. I would choose the woman's life. First and foremost. Without hesitation.
I am pro-choice, so I'll answer the pro-choice questions.
Yes, I really do. I see it disguised as some kind of fucked-up concern most often, but I see this attitude sa being very common in the pro-life movement. A lot of their rhetoric contains a thinly veiled sense of "BUT TEH BABIES R BETTER THAN WOMEN", and the laws pro-lifers are passing show that disdain and outright disrespect for a woman's bodily autonomy even more clearly.
I do see hints of an abusive personality often in that comment. He repeatedly points out that he doesn't value his wife as much as his one year old. His sense of control over his baby seems to be what keeps him loving her. I cannot imagine how he'll respond when she's a teenager and starts rebelling, and I hope she gets out of those years as unscathed as possible. He threatened his wife, blackmailed her basically, into a pregnancy she did not want, against her will. He repeatedly makes implications of control over his wife-they're "better off" now that she does what he says and doesn't worry her precious emotional immature little head over it.
I would not give birth against my will just because my partner demanded it. If I want to continue my pregnancy, I will. If I don't, I will not.
Now have at it!
It's really a heavy-hitter, I reccomend it as reading to anyone who is apathetic about the whole concept, to read it and consider facing (or being a part of, or being the wife) that kind of a situation.
Most of the comments are supportive, understanding. A few people share their own experiences. And then we get this pile of crazy.
I’m glad your wife is doing well and I’m sorry for the loss of your baby.
As a father of a 1 yr old baby girl, I value the life of my baby more than anything else on Earth. She is the most important thing there is, I would have to say equal to my own wife.. my baby is a part of me, she is my own blood, my offspring, she is genetically closer to me than my own wife. My baby girl will love me more as she is growing up than my own wife ever will.. the love between a daughter and father is, in my opinion, greater than between a husband and wife. Agree with me or not, that is my opinion.. and my baby girl is only 1 yr old. All she can say is “da da”, but I know she loves me and I love her infinitely so.. my wife, I love also infinitely so, but sometimes it’s rocky, sometimes it’s up and down and we aren’t always as close as we’d like to be, but I will always love my baby girl infinitely. When my wife found out she was pregnant, which was an accident, her instant reaction was that she wanted an abortion. There we were in the bathroom with the home pregnancy test kit in hand reading positive for pregnancy and she gets all histerical, crying and raving on and on about how her life is now ruined and how she can’t go through with being pregnant, etc.. I told her it’s her choice, but if she kills my baby (has an abortion) that I would divorce her in a heartbeat and I would never speak to her again. I thank God that I was able to sway her foolish and immature, emotional and illogical thinking, and she decided not to kill our baby girl. We are still married to this day and my wife and I both love our baby girl more than anything. In fact, if we did not have our baby (if my wife never got pregnant), I am pretty sure we would not still be married… having the baby has brought my wife and I closer in our marriage and has given us something greater than our love for each other (which is very strong), but now we are a family and we mutually love our daughter. If I had allowed my wife to abort our baby or I had not cared enough to take a firm moral stand based on what I believe is right, then today (1 yr and 9 months later) I would have been robbed of the single greatest joy I have ever known in my entire life. My baby girl is the most beautiful gift God has ever given me and the one thing I am most thankful for. I would give my life in a heartbeat to save my baby girl and how any mother would hesitate to even think otherwise is beyond me. I would not only give my own life to save my baby girl but I would kill or spend the rest of my life in prison if I had to, or pay any price no matter how high, to protect the life and safety of my innocent child.
I strongly disagree with your view that the loss of your unborn baby is any different than your already born baby. I don’t see the difference. It’s just a matter of a time shift. What if someone had gone back in time and killed your baby girl while she was still in the womb, knowing what you know today? Knowing the joy of your born child? Why is it any different for one child than another? You are just trying to make an excuse so you don’t have to suffer as badly emotionally, you are trying to rationalize it. I don’t mean to be rude or harsh, but I think you are bending your thinking in your own favor just to make it easier to get over this loss. The fact is that born or unborn, you still lost a child and I don’t believe that it should be viewed as any less of a loss either way.
Fortunately you still have your wife and one child. It’s probably too risky for you and your wife to ever try having another child naturally, but there are so many children you can adopt, so there is no shortage of that option.
I am strongly pro-life (of the baby). I would always choose the life of my child over my own life or anyone else’s life, including my wife. Harsh? Think about it. What’s more precious, an innocent life of a child who has their entire life ahead of them or a grown adult who has had a fair opportunity to live their life and have whatever experiences they have been blessed to have?
In your case there was no way to save the baby, they tried, they did everything they could but because of the dilation it was an inevitable loss and I’m terribly sorry for that. But I congratulate you on your efforts to do everything within your power to at least try to save your baby, even to the point of losing your wife. And I applaud you for hesitating as to whether or not to abort.
I am not against aborting if there is no possible alternative to saving the mother.. but if the child can be saved at the loss of the mother then I would choose the child. There is no logic to losing both, but it’s a risk worth taking, to take it as far as you took it should happen in every case, in my opinion.
What I am strongly against is pro-choice people arguing that a woman can get pregnant (accidentally, by being careless and irresponsible) and have the simple option of going down to the abortion clinic and in essence, “making the problem go away.” This is murder in my belief. I feel that once there is a heartbeat, then that is a life. Killing a fetus with a heartbeat is murder, plain and simple. It should not be a choice any girl or woman can simply make without a very good reason (their own life is in danger). Even in the case of rape. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In fact, adding the killing of a baby (abortion) in addition to the horror of a raped woman only makes the overall tragedy even worse.
I don’t see your connection between the laws and being pro-choice. If the law says “every effort must be made in every case to save the life of the unborn fetus, and only in the case of the certain death of the mother would an abortion be permissible.” Then what is wrong with such a law? It would hopefully prevent at least some portion of the constant murder of unborn babies in this country.
It’s not a choice to murder an unborn baby for no reason at all, it’s a crime.
Questions About the Original Post
1. Does this give you a view of the problems of pregnancy and its danger you hadn't considered before?
2. What would you have done in that man's situation? An unconcious partner who is fading fast, you have the power of medical choice over them, you must choose whether your partner lives or the fetus gets a higher chance of survival.
Questions About The Comment Under the Cut
Pro-lifers: Do you share this man's viewpoint? Do you believe the life of a fetus should be valued more highly than that of the pregnant woman? Do you consider his viewpoint valid, even if it's not yours? Do you see anything problematic about his viewpoint in regards to the pro-life movement? Do you see this kind of attitude often in the pro-life movement? (To women) Would you continue to stay with a partner who demanded you give birth against your will, and threatened to leave you if you didn't? (To men and those who would not be the one giving birth) Would you demand your partner continue a pregnancy against their will and threaten them if they refused?
Pro-choicers: Do you see this kind of attitude and apathy often in the pro-life movement, as far as you are concerned? Do you see any signs of a controlling or possibly emotionally abusive personality in his comment? (To Women) Would you continue to stay with a partner who demanded you give birth against your will? (To men & those not being the birth-giving partner) How woudl you respond to your partner reacting that way to finding out she was pregnant if you yourself wanted the fetus? Would you insist she carry it to term?
1. Not really. I've already dealt with that reality in my life (although it wasn't me pregnant, but a friend's mother) and I can safely and confidently say that I and my partner (and, since I am currently unmarried, my mother-who has power of attorney right now if I'm unconcious) have discussed it and everyone who needs to know already knows that I would rather survive and attempt birth or adoption at a later time.
2. I would choose the woman's life. First and foremost. Without hesitation.
I am pro-choice, so I'll answer the pro-choice questions.
Yes, I really do. I see it disguised as some kind of fucked-up concern most often, but I see this attitude sa being very common in the pro-life movement. A lot of their rhetoric contains a thinly veiled sense of "BUT TEH BABIES R BETTER THAN WOMEN", and the laws pro-lifers are passing show that disdain and outright disrespect for a woman's bodily autonomy even more clearly.
I do see hints of an abusive personality often in that comment. He repeatedly points out that he doesn't value his wife as much as his one year old. His sense of control over his baby seems to be what keeps him loving her. I cannot imagine how he'll respond when she's a teenager and starts rebelling, and I hope she gets out of those years as unscathed as possible. He threatened his wife, blackmailed her basically, into a pregnancy she did not want, against her will. He repeatedly makes implications of control over his wife-they're "better off" now that she does what he says and doesn't worry her precious emotional immature little head over it.
I would not give birth against my will just because my partner demanded it. If I want to continue my pregnancy, I will. If I don't, I will not.
Now have at it!