I love how they assume that the kids listening to their iPods or talking with their friends while working are doing it because they 'have different social mores' and not because they're working shitty concession jobs that they have no respect for.
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...spaceoperadivaJune 20 2006, 14:47:59 UTC
If they're paying me, I'll behave according to their standards. If I think their standards are ridiculous, I'll go find another shitty job whose culture is more to my liking. But I respect *myself* more than to act like a tool when someone's hired me to do something. The ipod listening while working concessions thing bewilders me though. If you're doing your job and can still clearly hear the customers, who cares?
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...malkin767June 20 2006, 14:53:24 UTC
Because even if you can still pay the same amount of attention the the customers (and personally, I'd be hard pressed to believe that) it gives the appearance of having other priorities. It's disrespectful.
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...roczaJune 20 2006, 14:56:31 UTC
Because in customer service, no matter how shitty or low paying the job is, the idea is to focus on the customer and not something else. Having earbuds in your ears is a very clear social signal that says "I'm not 100% focused on you."
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...roczaJune 20 2006, 14:54:55 UTC
Yup.
Although I definitely agree with Sherry, too - technology changes the way we process the world. Technology extends us, but at the same time we get that extension, it also amputates other things; in this case, what appears to be lost is certain social norms of our parents/grandparents.
(I admit, I'm only 3 years younger than Conrad, and while I agree with some of her points, I disagree with others - I'm definitely more a part of the technologically tied generation than not, although I appear to have retained manners.)
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...deadkytty9June 20 2006, 15:01:59 UTC
I doubt it. I think it likely that teenagers have been forced to work jobs that they despised for a long long time. Most definitely a generation or so back, which is what this article seems to be comparing the younger people with.
To baby boomers and other adults of a certain age, young people may seem rude, disrespectful and generally clueless about established social mores.
I really think this could be more a case of the babyboomers forgetting how they themselves acted as teens. Though the technology probably does make it easier to *visibly* ignore social situations (by wearing earbuds while working, chatting on AIM in a meeting, etc), while in the past teenagers probably just would have zoned out or doodled.
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...malkin767June 20 2006, 15:14:54 UTC
I'm not so sure, if for no other reason than the changes that have occurred over the last few decades in the work environment.
It used to be that a person could/would get a job and work his or her way up- staying loyal to a company for perhaps a lifetime. There was more incentive to make a better impression.
And while teenagers in the 60s might not have planned to work at the local burger joint for the rest of their lives, they weren't as likely to go on to higher education, either. Now we use degrees to vouch for ourselves while hunting for jobs. Sure, we still use work and personal references, but there was a time when work history was all a lot of people had. I think jobs like that were taken a bit more seriously.
I'm in my mid-20s, and even I've noticed differences in the work ethics and styles of many of my younger interns and employees when compared to people just a few years older. Not all the differences are negative- some are very positive, but the focus for a lot of youth today seems to have shifted.
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...deadkytty9June 20 2006, 16:04:08 UTC
I don't know. I wasn't around then. I wonder if anybody has any longitudinal data on attitudes towards jobs. (I'm not in school right now, so I can't just go look it up easily.)
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...rimrunnerJune 20 2006, 16:39:52 UTC
I've noticed differences in the work ethics and styles of many of my younger interns and employees when compared to people just a few years older. Could that just be a function of age, though? The reason I ask is that I work with a number of undergraduate students who are all about the same age, but who vary widely in terms of how conscientious they are at work. Some of them are great, very detail-oriented, and I can hand them projects and not worry about their quality of work. Others...not so much. It's pretty clear to me that some of them have never worked service jobs before: they're not being deliberately rude, but nobody has ever taught them the basics of good customer service. (This is probably going to become my responsibility because I do have a background in that area
( ... )
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...malkin767June 20 2006, 17:15:49 UTC
Could that just be a function of age, though?
I've thought about that. To some extent that is a factor. With age and experience there is more opportunity and pressure to conform to social standards. Still, I get the sense that something more is changing with the up and coming generation. I don't have any scientific evidence to back it up. That's just what my intuition tells me. It would be an interesting subject to study further.
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...rimrunnerJune 20 2006, 17:34:01 UTC
Times like these, I wish I was an anthropologist instead of a professional dilettante. You're right, it's an interesting question.
There's a lot in the library professional literature about millennials, as they're called, but it mostly has to do with the stuff in this article relating to technology: the reliance on gadgets, the ability to multi-task, making connections using social software, and so on. (Surprisingly, most of the people I have to remind to shut off their cell phones while in the library are adults well over the age of 30, i.e. more than old enough to know better.)
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...green_faeJune 20 2006, 21:39:10 UTC
Well, I also think I've seen more of a sense of entitlement in modern teens. I had lots of dumb summer jobs, but I did what I was asked to do and was raised to be respectful and to do a good job no matter how innane- just because you should always do a good job. At one retail job I was not allowed to be seen sitting on the clock, even if I had work in my lap, or if there were no customers in sight. I'd probably have been dismissed for wearing an ipod.
A lot of these jobs *don't* get respect, and teens feel they *deserve* a better job, or to not have to work at all. Teens will always think rebelliously, and rebel to some extent, but the expectations help set the bar to what they have to do to rebell. If authority is strict, a kid can chew gum or grow his hair below the ear to be a rebel. Society is so much more relaxed, they have to try harder to rebel.
Re: Perhaps that's the point completely...loserwhorecuntJune 23 2006, 01:53:59 UTC
exactly, think about the lazy, rebelious flabbers which can before the baby boomers generation. as i said previously, as well trying to speak globaly, it is all relivent to the environment, ei - society. i think alot of people here are disregarding how the digital, mass communication age is ///also/// affecting the world ... not just america.
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Although I definitely agree with Sherry, too - technology changes the way we process the world. Technology extends us, but at the same time we get that extension, it also amputates other things; in this case, what appears to be lost is certain social norms of our parents/grandparents.
(I admit, I'm only 3 years younger than Conrad, and while I agree with some of her points, I disagree with others - I'm definitely more a part of the technologically tied generation than not, although I appear to have retained manners.)
Reply
To baby boomers and other adults of a certain age, young people may seem rude, disrespectful and generally clueless about established social mores.
I really think this could be more a case of the babyboomers forgetting how they themselves acted as teens. Though the technology probably does make it easier to *visibly* ignore social situations (by wearing earbuds while working, chatting on AIM in a meeting, etc), while in the past teenagers probably just would have zoned out or doodled.
Reply
It used to be that a person could/would get a job and work his or her way up- staying loyal to a company for perhaps a lifetime. There was more incentive to make a better impression.
And while teenagers in the 60s might not have planned to work at the local burger joint for the rest of their lives, they weren't as likely to go on to higher education, either. Now we use degrees to vouch for ourselves while hunting for jobs. Sure, we still use work and personal references, but there was a time when work history was all a lot of people had. I think jobs like that were taken a bit more seriously.
I'm in my mid-20s, and even I've noticed differences in the work ethics and styles of many of my younger interns and employees when compared to people just a few years older. Not all the differences are negative- some are very positive, but the focus for a lot of youth today seems to have shifted.
Reply
Reply
Reply
I've thought about that. To some extent that is a factor. With age and experience there is more opportunity and pressure to conform to social standards. Still, I get the sense that something more is changing with the up and coming generation. I don't have any scientific evidence to back it up. That's just what my intuition tells me. It would be an interesting subject to study further.
Reply
There's a lot in the library professional literature about millennials, as they're called, but it mostly has to do with the stuff in this article relating to technology: the reliance on gadgets, the ability to multi-task, making connections using social software, and so on. (Surprisingly, most of the people I have to remind to shut off their cell phones while in the library are adults well over the age of 30, i.e. more than old enough to know better.)
Reply
I had lots of dumb summer jobs, but I did what I was asked to do and was raised to be respectful
and to do a good job no matter how innane- just because you should always do a good job.
At one retail job I was not allowed to be seen sitting on the clock,
even if I had work in my lap, or if there were no customers in sight.
I'd probably have been dismissed for wearing an ipod.
A lot of these jobs *don't* get respect, and teens feel they *deserve* a better job, or to not have to work at all.
Teens will always think rebelliously, and rebel to some extent,
but the expectations help set the bar to what they have to do to rebell.
If authority is strict, a kid can chew gum or grow his hair below the ear to be a rebel.
Society is so much more relaxed, they have to try harder to rebel.
Reply
Reply
Reply
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