Questions on Feminism from an Anthropological View

[cosmictofu]

hello everyone. My friend is writing an article on feminism and asked me a few interview questions. after i answered i started thinking about the implications of my answers from an anthropological perspective

Comments

she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[metahara]

As an American woman entering a world of mysterious discipline and musical foundations, I brought along some of my invisible conditionings. I believed that it was my ability to speak my personal injustice out loud that was representational of my freedom. I believed that my use of my body and the expression that I could make without much limitation was a comment on my not being oppressed. All this in its superficial surroundings was put to the test as I began to study the veiled women of Morocco.
My initial conditioning saw the woman as beauty and potential trapped behind the veil. I saw oceans of longing peering out over the ornate gold embroidered cloth. I saw rainbows of genetic diversity all wrapped up behind a male imposed tradition. But as I looked closer and listened clearer I saw an unexplainable calm. A beauty that surpassed its physical costumes and concentrated in the eyes. The women were not hiding a precious gift behind the cloth; they were controlling the gift with the power of their own mysteries. The women had the power to give this beauty to those they deemed worthy, and the impression of their own womanhood could not be judged by the body or the body’s many illusive yet obvious gestures.
These women were holding a real freedom that in my many years of “freedom”, I had never experienced. These women were dancing the thin line that separates the oppressed from the liberated. They were defining womanhood with the look in their eyes. They were decorated in the privacy of their own worlds and could come and go as they pleased, invisible light that controlled every movement with grace.

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[cosmictofu]

i didn't mean to say that wearing the hijab is in ways synonymous with FGM although it came off that way i think (oops). I was talking about the consequences one would face if she did not want to partake in a cultural practice such as FGM or wearing a hijab or burkah. I have total respect and admiration for women who wear the hijab and i almost feel as you do. Perhaps that I should clarify that some of the issues feminists had to deal with were the hijab and fgm, which is why i responded to both of those issues in a similar matter, not necessarily because i equivocate them (because i don't) but for the sake of her article and alloted time/space, i felt that it was appropriate to respond to both with the same train of thought, that we should butt out of their cultural practices (even though the degrees of them are different).

You see the hijab in a way that many Western women do not, so I can see why it would offend you that it be compared to something like FGM because FGM is a practice that you probably frown upon. but i honestly think that if you were familiar with a culture that practiced FGM, and immersed yourself in that culture as you have in Morocco, you might find the ability to respect the practice, however strange that might sound...

clarification understood- thanx - and...

[metahara]

"if you were familiar with a culture that practiced FGM, and immersed yourself in that culture as you have in Morocco, you might find the ability to respect the practice, however strange that might sound..."
it doesn't sound strange,
EXCEPT
I am a woman who experiences both clitoral and vaginal orgasm and (my own) female ejaculation....If i was raised in that culture, was circumcised & had no idea what i was not experiencing ...then maybe...but, i can not think of a single worthy argument for a woman to miss out on orgasm. I am clearly biased on that point and am a bit of an activist sharing the knowledge that female orgasm and ejaculation is healthy for individual and the community she affects. I also feel that sexuality/sensuality and spirituality work together (but, that is another post).

I say maybe (above) based on my experience with a woman named Soraya

In 1998, I worked with a fellow female producer attempting to make a film based on her true experience as a woman who escaped FGM. We optioned the story, but, got nowhere as the subject was considered to "heavy" by the investors we proposed to.

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[strixx]

Yes, of course. However, that description also sounds a lot like what female sexual submissives and slaves say. Of course, I'm not equating the two - just found it interesting.

I don't care if anyone, male or female, wants to wear a Hijab- what bothers me is when they are pressured into it, or only do it because they were reared that way, and have no opportunity to try something different.

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[metahara]

do you feel the same way about american girls pressured into wearing abercrombe or Brittany spears hoochie outfits?

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[strixx]

I'm not sure what your point is - there is no heavy religously-inspired pressure to wear Abercrombie hoochie outfits, that I know of. Are you contrasting/comparing peer and fashion pressure with pressure from a rigidly religious culture?

you don't need religion to pressure a girl and make her sick

[metahara]

i'd be willing to bet that our sweet lil american princesses are throwing up and starving themselves into graves faster and more often than islamic girls anywhere just to fit in (to Abercrombe)...i'd bet more of our girls are imprisoned (stealing, vandalism, gang involvement/ pressure) , I'd bet we have at least as many who have low self esteem, and more commit crimes...How many girls are sexually active these days who are not in a relationship and why? what motivates that 12 year old to give blow jobs in the john at school? I dont think there is an islamic equivalant to the Lindsey Lohan sort of tragedy we have in the west....but, i'm not interested enough to back it up with research at the moment

Re: you don't need religion to pressure a girl and make her sick

[strixx]

Oh, I see what you're driving at. No, I'm not a fan of the intense, absurd fixation on appearance in this country...and know it first hand. I was heavy as a kid after a serious operation, and was treated to years of torment becuase of it, both socially and at school. It is enormously destructive and very pervasive. However, no one in this country has so far been stabbed for not wearing hoochie clothes, that I'm aware of. How ironic that we live in a 'free society', but try just as hard to make some kind of slaves out of ourselves and each other.

good n bad everywhere- i'm sure u agree

[metahara]

at my sons school (he is in a Music academy "magnet" within a ghetto school) they are not allowed to wear certain "colors"

there were decades of stabbings and shootings (gang related) over what color a kid was wearing (gang affiliation)

people have been killed for a new pair of Jordans....

no matter where you go- there are crazy people

I find Los Angeles to be the most oppressive culture....
people smiled, laughed and danced in the streets more often in Morroco....
New Orleans once provided the greatest culture I've lived in, but then I prefer joyous musical soulfulness...

Re: good n bad everywhere- i'm sure u agree

[strixx]

I distinctly remember the first time I heard of a child murdering another for a pair of shoes - it was quite a few years ago. I was so sickened and angered about our country's mindless, viciously commercial 'you must have this' lifestyle...and it still sickens me. I told everyone I knew about that murder, and wrote about in in one of my papers at school. What kind of society wants you to feel like you MUST have a 300 dollar pair of athletic shoes and a 2,000 dollar Prada bag to fit in? A SICK ONE.

Our empty, selfish, soulless consumerism will be our ultimate downfall. Global warming, oil, the environment...all tied to our absurd obsessions with everything but what is truly important.

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[metahara]

that said, I am glad to be American Born....though i admit to a little Canadian envy (the common sense country).

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[strixx]

Love Canada. Want to move to Vancouver....fabulous, beautiful place.

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[metahara]

yes, I'm just waiting for global warming to turn Canada into a sub tropical paradise climate and I'm there!

Re: she put hijab wearing on the level with CIRCUMCISION??

[strixx]

Vancouver is close to that - it is warm enough to grow palm trees. It has a lovely, warm summer (not hot) and a cool, rainy winter that doesn't freeze. There are NO MOSQUITOS there! It's close enough to the ocean that they don't like it. Of course, you probably don't have a big mosquito probelm in L.A.

Incest, molestation and cultural choice

[strixx]

I have really enjoyed your posts, thank you for all of your efforts and thoughts. A final example of how I view humanity and culture, which you might find interesting.

Say a man grew up in an incestuous family, and was regularly anally penetrated by his father beginning at age 7, along with other sexual acts with his family members. That is his culture, his only norm. He grows up and forces his 7 year old daughter to have intercourse with him. Do we excuse his actions because he was only following his cultural norm? No. We expect an adult to think at least somewhat independently, and to be able to recognize when something is harming their child. We may understand why he molested her, in part, but we do not excuse it simply becuase it is his norm, his culture. Vaginal or anal penetration of a little child is obviously substantially harmful, as is cutting off a girl's clitoris and sewing her labia shut so that urine must dribble out by her vagina and anus.

It is not surprising to read of so many women who admit that they knew that maiming their child was wrong. That they agonized over it...hated it. I suggest that they are not much different from the man who instinctively 'knows' that he should not rape his daughter,
hurt her physically so badly, agonizes over it - but does it anyway.

chosen response/feild

[metahara]

right. and here, this post is about what you can do about it as a scientist. As a scientist, you examine, report, research...to "do" anything, to change the circumstance (as in the case with circumcision) one must become an activist, artist, missionary, soldier, diplomat, politician, etc.

I choose to be an artist. Art is my tool, i gather inspiration from science.