A little update/J2 fandom wank
I need to get my thoughts in order regarding the J2 debacle. I know a lot of people on Twitter seem to think I am 'hating on Jensen' with what I have replied to some folks. A tweet is short and I do not hate anyone on the basis of SM unless they are actively putting out despicable/fraudulent or cruel statements. And yes, I am looking at Misha Collins there. Anyway, my response has been deeply and personally emotional but not because I have ever idolised J2 or their relationships. After a day soul searching I find it is a lot more complicated and messy than that.
Anyhow, trying to get a handle on it for myself, in some sort of bullet form, without the restrictions of twitter or worrying about typos and grammar is mostly why I am here.
So. Hi. It's been a while. How are y'all doing.
First things first. Does anyone remember that LJ hack ... so many years ago ... 10 years maybe? Yeah. Guess who had a blackmail email this week quoting my password at the time and threatening to fuck up my computer and SM on the basis of it unless I paid them? LMAO. It followed a persistent attempt at hacking many of my accounts for the week before, which was persistently unsuccessful but extremely annoying. How many changes of password can a person actually remember when changing all their account passwords multiple times a day?
So yeah, on the offchance that anyone had an account way back when and still uses the basic password they had then, in any account, change it right now. But really, who does? I can't imagine their success rate is high.
On to getting my head straight:
Everyone has seen the J2 debacle of the last 48hours, I am not going to rehash the receipts, they are easily located.
General principles
- Despite being a fan of SPN I do not consider J2 (or any cast or crew) idols of mine.
-I shouldn't have any real investment in their relationship or the way they live their lives but apparently they have fostered a fandom presence which makes me care.
- Actors are real people with real flaws and I have no reason to like or dislike them in real life or even trust them.
-Up until now I have mostly trusted that J2 are probably nice people in real life.
-Yes. I have REALLY VAST trust issues and rarely believe that anyone is what they present themselves as.
- This is what happens when you've been in a lifetime of abusive relationships with narcissists, that have left you with CPTSD and ordinary PTSD for which the therapy, reading and info collection on abusers and their methods has also been vast.
- Back to the point - I have loved the #SPN universe and that includes the J2 brand and 'fanon' Jensen and Jared as presented publicly.
- I have enjoyed playing in the fanon J2 universe and writing fic but I never thought it WAS them, *see my pinned post*
-Equally on SM I never assume it is actually always them tweeting, or that oddities, the display of human emotions and mistakes on Twitter are any reason to make assumptions about them and their lives
An aside
-On the day it happened, the testimony of Britney Spears was also being made public. I am not a fan of her or her music but the account she gives of the abuse she has endured from her father is gut wrenching. I was truly upset for her and angry. This is how I am. If I see somebody being treated badly or bullied, it affects me. I think that should apply to everyone but I see and recognise abuse patterns readily.
Onward
-I do know and always remind myself that some behaviour which resembles abuse, gaslighting or narcissism may be a one off comment. Unless there is a pattern of behaviour involved it is none of these things so I cannot make an assumption off SM.
- Behaviour which resembles abuse, gaslighting and/or narcisissm (or just plain cruelty) nevertheless pings in my brain real hard and triggers a loss of trust response for me, commensurate with the perceived event.
-It also triggers a 'hold them to account, an acknowledgment and/or apology is required' response which I thank my wonderful therapist for instiling in me.
Now on to the actual event
-Jared's response pinged hard with me as genuine, heartfelt and really, really hurt by the actions or non-action of several people he regarded as good friends.
-The subsequent pile on of hate I saw at the fact he expressed hurt publicly to what to him would have been a public humiliation was absolutely shocking. It pained me emotionally to see it. BIg, big PINGS went off for the bullying tweetshe was receiving.
-Interestingly the internet saw this as a polarised J2 argument. It wasn't. It was a much bigger betrayal (looking through Jared's eyes) than that. A LOT of people who Jared perceived as good friends, knew about the prequel and had apparently kept the secret from him.
-In my eyes this is a MASSIVE trust issue for anyone with depression and self worth problems because our brain constantly whispers 'they don't really like you' in your ear and like for Britney I felt a second hand devastation for Jared in that moment. (it's called empathy guys)
-It really doesn't matter whether his exclusion was a 'mean girls' move or a business screw up (but really, this had to be in the pipeline for at least 6 months, if it's screw up then it is still a result of Jensen or Danneel's thoughtlessness at the very least) the hurt was always going to be painful and real and no less either way. It LOOKED like it had to be deliberate at first glance.
- Okay so. The whole internet had witnessed the #SPN family very publicly snubbing Jared (looking through a victim's eyes here still) Jensen was silent. Robbie was silent, Eric only acknowledged Jared's request not to send threats to them (Jensen, Danneel, Robbie, Eric).
- There is a pattern of Jared apologising for reacting to being hurt on SM despite that being a very human and natural reaction. This is a pattern typically shown by victims of narcissists/abuse. He put out a tweet asking for folks not to be mean to his friends over what had happened. It could be perceived as taking responsibility for causing a fuss by expressing his hurt. IT PINGED me hard.
- Jared started to get further threats and abuse because it was perceived he had caused Jensen great harm by his short, upset tweets, that he had apologised and therefore he must have been in the wrong.
-In reality the attention Jensen was getting on SM was mostly supportive against Jared or chiding and asking him to apologise.
-Interestingly I saw few people asking Robbie, Eric or Danneel to apologise. And nobody seemed to recognise that the publicity stunt that had caused it all was likely a 'Chaos Machine' stunt so maybe Jensen and Danneel should be thinking about a business apology too. If only for damage control to retain the trust in their brand.
Here's where it got really squirrelly for me and maybe a little triggery too:
-Cast mates asked for jobs on the prequel without acknowledging Jared at all.
-The perpetrators of harm stayed silent for way, way too long.
-Suddenly, the victim (Jared) piped up, again with pretty much an apology saying that Jensen and he had talked it over and all was good. Jensen piped up with an insipid, 'We're still besties' without acknowledging the harm the event had caused Jared, without apologising for that harm and without making any effort to prevent further harm or learn from it, as far as we could see.
-WTAF
-Publicly, within a toxic space, this places all responsibilty on Jared. It is gaslighting. It is classic narcissist abuse 101. It encourages others to make an assumption of guilt against the victim and it was pretty much the statement I had been made to make, over and over again in a painful, damaging relationship where the abuser could not and would not take responsibility or apologise. To date, we now have Jensen's aunt publicly trashing Jared too and what message does that send?
- 24 hours and all that has been seen from Chaos Machine and the rest of those who prepetrated harm is a silence which fosters an avalanche of more harm.
-Now is this abuse if it is one time? NO. That is not what I am saying. It is not an assumption I am willing to make. They are adults, their relationship is not known by me and we do not deserve any access to their lives but this was playing out in public, in a way that victim blamed and shamed, and gaslit Jared and the fanbase. It doesn't matter if it was intended, it doesn't matter if it was poor wording. This is what happened.
PING FUCKING PING PING PING
Conclusion
-I cannot take sides on the actual events but I can have opinions on how the public and emotional harm to a person was handled publicly by those who hurt them
-Any one of the perpetrators, could, at any time, have made the same sort of statement as Jared, to ask for a stop to the threats and bullying of their friend and ex colleague. They didn't, they haven't. Instead they have doubled down by sharing the articles of people who have been actively involved Hate against Jared on SM and in trying to achieve the cancellation of Jared's new show, 'Walker'.
-Any one of them could have acknowledged how hurtful it was publicly and apologised publicly instead of giving tired excuses of 'I didn't know' or 'We're all besties really'
-So yes, I am angry and certain triggers have been triggered. (Eh, not blaming anyone for that, I could have come off SM but my moral outrage wouldn't let me)
-I am devastated for Jared and the fandom in general, even if it was a mistake (series of mistakes) , the handling of it was, and continues to be tone deaf and toxic towards a large proportion of the fandom and to Jared himself (whether he sees it or not)
-I don't know any of the players involved in this fiasco. I can't tell you if I'd like any of them in real life.
-I can tell you that I would no longer TRUST Jensen, Danneel, Eric, Robbie, or any of the cast members who asked for a job while someone in their midst was so obviously shaken by the annoucement. I cannot bring myself to have the previous trust that they are probably nice people. I will always have the marker in my head that narcissists are most likely to be charming and successful in their careers and the shit doesn't stick to their shoe because they manipulate it to land on somebody close to them. (PING PING to all of these for Danneel and Jensen)
-If I ever got the opportunity to have photo ops with Jensen or Danneel, I probably won't. The PING is loud even if there is a possibility it is all set off by a series of unfortunate events that do not paint an accurate picture.
- On SM I have and will try to nudge the perpetrators to make some sort of apology/ acknowledgement of harm/stop to bullying. This does not mean I hate anyone. I simply want to hold them accountable for their actions.
-I don't care if you don't think that holding accountable is any of my buisiness. If they want to sell me their products and use the fandom to their benefit in future ventures then yes, I will expect accountability to the fandom.
-What they set as an example matters. Their current example sucks.
-This is my reaction and my emotions, you do not have to feel the same and your life experience means you likely will not. But how I feel is valid. How I deal with it (within a moral code of no harm to others) is my business alone.
-Oh and one last thing. Even if Jared had been included from the start, even if everything was hunkydory. Nothing, not even wildhorses or Dame Judi Dench could compel me to watch a prequel about John and Mary. There is zero interesting to be had in those characters for me. It has nothing to do with hate, I don't wish failure on the project. It's about my personal taste in entertainment and it's a hard no from me.
-This is an emotional response, my grammar and typing will suck. Receipts are out there but I cannot be bothered to link them right now. They are all over SM.
-I will link a list of resources later regarding living with narcissists/ abuse, in case anybody needs it. If you do need it, then please remember to clear your browser to prevent your abuser seeing that you may be inclined to research these things. I am not a professional but if anyone needs to reach out peer to peer about it then you can dm me WHEN IT IS SAFE to do so,
So, Yeah. Read it or not. Hit me up or not. But anyone accusing me of hate or commenting with hate will be blocked. I don't have the energy for that crap. If anyone wants to give me the SPAG mistakes here, you are welcome to do so.
Anyhow, trying to get a handle on it for myself, in some sort of bullet form, without the restrictions of twitter or worrying about typos and grammar is mostly why I am here.
So. Hi. It's been a while. How are y'all doing.
First things first. Does anyone remember that LJ hack ... so many years ago ... 10 years maybe? Yeah. Guess who had a blackmail email this week quoting my password at the time and threatening to fuck up my computer and SM on the basis of it unless I paid them? LMAO. It followed a persistent attempt at hacking many of my accounts for the week before, which was persistently unsuccessful but extremely annoying. How many changes of password can a person actually remember when changing all their account passwords multiple times a day?
So yeah, on the offchance that anyone had an account way back when and still uses the basic password they had then, in any account, change it right now. But really, who does? I can't imagine their success rate is high.
On to getting my head straight:
Everyone has seen the J2 debacle of the last 48hours, I am not going to rehash the receipts, they are easily located.
General principles
- Despite being a fan of SPN I do not consider J2 (or any cast or crew) idols of mine.
-I shouldn't have any real investment in their relationship or the way they live their lives but apparently they have fostered a fandom presence which makes me care.
- Actors are real people with real flaws and I have no reason to like or dislike them in real life or even trust them.
-Up until now I have mostly trusted that J2 are probably nice people in real life.
-Yes. I have REALLY VAST trust issues and rarely believe that anyone is what they present themselves as.
- This is what happens when you've been in a lifetime of abusive relationships with narcissists, that have left you with CPTSD and ordinary PTSD for which the therapy, reading and info collection on abusers and their methods has also been vast.
- Back to the point - I have loved the #SPN universe and that includes the J2 brand and 'fanon' Jensen and Jared as presented publicly.
- I have enjoyed playing in the fanon J2 universe and writing fic but I never thought it WAS them, *see my pinned post*
-Equally on SM I never assume it is actually always them tweeting, or that oddities, the display of human emotions and mistakes on Twitter are any reason to make assumptions about them and their lives
An aside
-On the day it happened, the testimony of Britney Spears was also being made public. I am not a fan of her or her music but the account she gives of the abuse she has endured from her father is gut wrenching. I was truly upset for her and angry. This is how I am. If I see somebody being treated badly or bullied, it affects me. I think that should apply to everyone but I see and recognise abuse patterns readily.
Onward
-I do know and always remind myself that some behaviour which resembles abuse, gaslighting or narcissism may be a one off comment. Unless there is a pattern of behaviour involved it is none of these things so I cannot make an assumption off SM.
- Behaviour which resembles abuse, gaslighting and/or narcisissm (or just plain cruelty) nevertheless pings in my brain real hard and triggers a loss of trust response for me, commensurate with the perceived event.
-It also triggers a 'hold them to account, an acknowledgment and/or apology is required' response which I thank my wonderful therapist for instiling in me.
Now on to the actual event
-Jared's response pinged hard with me as genuine, heartfelt and really, really hurt by the actions or non-action of several people he regarded as good friends.
-The subsequent pile on of hate I saw at the fact he expressed hurt publicly to what to him would have been a public humiliation was absolutely shocking. It pained me emotionally to see it. BIg, big PINGS went off for the bullying tweetshe was receiving.
-Interestingly the internet saw this as a polarised J2 argument. It wasn't. It was a much bigger betrayal (looking through Jared's eyes) than that. A LOT of people who Jared perceived as good friends, knew about the prequel and had apparently kept the secret from him.
-In my eyes this is a MASSIVE trust issue for anyone with depression and self worth problems because our brain constantly whispers 'they don't really like you' in your ear and like for Britney I felt a second hand devastation for Jared in that moment. (it's called empathy guys)
-It really doesn't matter whether his exclusion was a 'mean girls' move or a business screw up (but really, this had to be in the pipeline for at least 6 months, if it's screw up then it is still a result of Jensen or Danneel's thoughtlessness at the very least) the hurt was always going to be painful and real and no less either way. It LOOKED like it had to be deliberate at first glance.
- Okay so. The whole internet had witnessed the #SPN family very publicly snubbing Jared (looking through a victim's eyes here still) Jensen was silent. Robbie was silent, Eric only acknowledged Jared's request not to send threats to them (Jensen, Danneel, Robbie, Eric).
- There is a pattern of Jared apologising for reacting to being hurt on SM despite that being a very human and natural reaction. This is a pattern typically shown by victims of narcissists/abuse. He put out a tweet asking for folks not to be mean to his friends over what had happened. It could be perceived as taking responsibility for causing a fuss by expressing his hurt. IT PINGED me hard.
- Jared started to get further threats and abuse because it was perceived he had caused Jensen great harm by his short, upset tweets, that he had apologised and therefore he must have been in the wrong.
-In reality the attention Jensen was getting on SM was mostly supportive against Jared or chiding and asking him to apologise.
-Interestingly I saw few people asking Robbie, Eric or Danneel to apologise. And nobody seemed to recognise that the publicity stunt that had caused it all was likely a 'Chaos Machine' stunt so maybe Jensen and Danneel should be thinking about a business apology too. If only for damage control to retain the trust in their brand.
Here's where it got really squirrelly for me and maybe a little triggery too:
-Cast mates asked for jobs on the prequel without acknowledging Jared at all.
-The perpetrators of harm stayed silent for way, way too long.
-Suddenly, the victim (Jared) piped up, again with pretty much an apology saying that Jensen and he had talked it over and all was good. Jensen piped up with an insipid, 'We're still besties' without acknowledging the harm the event had caused Jared, without apologising for that harm and without making any effort to prevent further harm or learn from it, as far as we could see.
-WTAF
-Publicly, within a toxic space, this places all responsibilty on Jared. It is gaslighting. It is classic narcissist abuse 101. It encourages others to make an assumption of guilt against the victim and it was pretty much the statement I had been made to make, over and over again in a painful, damaging relationship where the abuser could not and would not take responsibility or apologise. To date, we now have Jensen's aunt publicly trashing Jared too and what message does that send?
- 24 hours and all that has been seen from Chaos Machine and the rest of those who prepetrated harm is a silence which fosters an avalanche of more harm.
-Now is this abuse if it is one time? NO. That is not what I am saying. It is not an assumption I am willing to make. They are adults, their relationship is not known by me and we do not deserve any access to their lives but this was playing out in public, in a way that victim blamed and shamed, and gaslit Jared and the fanbase. It doesn't matter if it was intended, it doesn't matter if it was poor wording. This is what happened.
PING FUCKING PING PING PING
Conclusion
-I cannot take sides on the actual events but I can have opinions on how the public and emotional harm to a person was handled publicly by those who hurt them
-Any one of the perpetrators, could, at any time, have made the same sort of statement as Jared, to ask for a stop to the threats and bullying of their friend and ex colleague. They didn't, they haven't. Instead they have doubled down by sharing the articles of people who have been actively involved Hate against Jared on SM and in trying to achieve the cancellation of Jared's new show, 'Walker'.
-Any one of them could have acknowledged how hurtful it was publicly and apologised publicly instead of giving tired excuses of 'I didn't know' or 'We're all besties really'
-So yes, I am angry and certain triggers have been triggered. (Eh, not blaming anyone for that, I could have come off SM but my moral outrage wouldn't let me)
-I am devastated for Jared and the fandom in general, even if it was a mistake (series of mistakes) , the handling of it was, and continues to be tone deaf and toxic towards a large proportion of the fandom and to Jared himself (whether he sees it or not)
-I don't know any of the players involved in this fiasco. I can't tell you if I'd like any of them in real life.
-I can tell you that I would no longer TRUST Jensen, Danneel, Eric, Robbie, or any of the cast members who asked for a job while someone in their midst was so obviously shaken by the annoucement. I cannot bring myself to have the previous trust that they are probably nice people. I will always have the marker in my head that narcissists are most likely to be charming and successful in their careers and the shit doesn't stick to their shoe because they manipulate it to land on somebody close to them. (PING PING to all of these for Danneel and Jensen)
-If I ever got the opportunity to have photo ops with Jensen or Danneel, I probably won't. The PING is loud even if there is a possibility it is all set off by a series of unfortunate events that do not paint an accurate picture.
- On SM I have and will try to nudge the perpetrators to make some sort of apology/ acknowledgement of harm/stop to bullying. This does not mean I hate anyone. I simply want to hold them accountable for their actions.
-I don't care if you don't think that holding accountable is any of my buisiness. If they want to sell me their products and use the fandom to their benefit in future ventures then yes, I will expect accountability to the fandom.
-What they set as an example matters. Their current example sucks.
-This is my reaction and my emotions, you do not have to feel the same and your life experience means you likely will not. But how I feel is valid. How I deal with it (within a moral code of no harm to others) is my business alone.
-Oh and one last thing. Even if Jared had been included from the start, even if everything was hunkydory. Nothing, not even wildhorses or Dame Judi Dench could compel me to watch a prequel about John and Mary. There is zero interesting to be had in those characters for me. It has nothing to do with hate, I don't wish failure on the project. It's about my personal taste in entertainment and it's a hard no from me.
-This is an emotional response, my grammar and typing will suck. Receipts are out there but I cannot be bothered to link them right now. They are all over SM.
-I will link a list of resources later regarding living with narcissists/ abuse, in case anybody needs it. If you do need it, then please remember to clear your browser to prevent your abuser seeing that you may be inclined to research these things. I am not a professional but if anyone needs to reach out peer to peer about it then you can dm me WHEN IT IS SAFE to do so,
So, Yeah. Read it or not. Hit me up or not. But anyone accusing me of hate or commenting with hate will be blocked. I don't have the energy for that crap. If anyone wants to give me the SPAG mistakes here, you are welcome to do so.