Animorphs and Discrimination

[blue_rampion]

Before we get into the minor character discussions, there is a topic I've been wanting to bring up here - discrimination and how they are dealt with and portrayed in the books. We see examples of racism, speciesism, sexism, and discrimination against the disabled, but they're all examined to different degrees and in different ways

Comments

[anijen21]

I think sexism is dealt with a little bit in The Hork-Bajir Chronicles and maybe #38--I mean, we're doing racism through the fake alien filter, so let's handle gender the same way

[blue_rampion]

You can see some interesting stuff with the Yeerks in regards to gender as well - they don't appear to have one, biologically, but they often seem to acquire a gender from their hosts (or at the very least, other people refer to them as having a gender)

...maybe "Animorphs and the performance of gender" should be another topic dear god why did I not get back into this series until after I finished studying English and Literature IT IS A GOLDMINE DAMMIT

And memory's a funny thing - there are studies that show how people can remember stuff that never actually happened. Why not with fiction?

[anijen21]

omg I could write a BOOK about Yeerk gender I love that whole issue.

And I guess my point was more, why did I IMPOSE those memories on the series when it was usually pretty uncharged and ungendered? and why were the women always objectifying the men? lol idk

[blue_rampion]

You know if you cobbled together all of the discussions on this community, we probably WOULD have a book :P

Who knows, maybe you felt that women had been objectified so much that the men deserved some as well? XD But speaking seriously, notions about gender and how people should act are pretty ingrained into us. Even when we are aware of them, it's hard to step out of that viewpoint.

[cxrdevil]

I remember Rachel talking about how cute Ax is too. That sounds really familiar. Now I don't know what to believe.

A discussion devoted entirely to gender would be interesting. Especially with Yeerks. And you make a good point with the Andalite culture VS Andalite morphing ability. Maybe that's why more females are in their military as Ax says it (especially because they're apparently, in general, better morphers, but the fact that anyone can be a male or female if they choose to is intriguing.)

Not just gender but identity in general. Tobias was trapped as a hawk, he felt safer as a hawk, he self-identifies as a hawk-boy or hawk and not a boy hawk or a boy stuck in a hawk's body. It's his body. He has a very instinctive reaction to morphing Andalite even if he doesn't know the culture. Yeerks seem to adopt the gender of their hosts for the most part.

If, for example, Cassie morphed a male wolf and became a nothlit, would she, in time, want to mate with females rather than males, assuming she's heterosexual now, and lose her

[blue_rampion]

It's kinda of a shame really, that the books don't touch on what the characters think of morphing the opposite gender much. I mean, with morphing animals (Marco initial complains about not getting to be the male wolf aside), they appear to not care at all about gender. And that could be because it's just temporary, or because being a different gender as an animal isn't like being a different gender as a human.

But we do have both Tobias and Marco morphing the opposite gender, and the most we get in terms of their thoughts on it is Tobias ruminating about the apparent power his hot girl body has over boys. Are they just so used to being in different bodies that being a different gender isn't that big a deal? Or would they have actually felt uncomfortable about it, and the text just didn't mention it?

[sylverlining]

"Are they just so used to being in different bodies that being a different gender isn't that big a deal? Or would they have actually felt uncomfortable about it, and the text just didn't mention it?"

Those are the two biggest possibilities I see about the lack of any real gender discussion in the books. Or just one really - I figure that the potential was ABSOLUTELY there, that it should have been there, and Applegrant knew damn well that not having any reaction or thought on the question of gender was just ridiculous, but didn't want to incur the wrath of parents or censors... and so they played it off as "oh the characters just wouldn't think about it anymore."

Bullshit. Sure, they're changeling kids used to being in lots of different bodies... but they are also TEENAGERS. A teenage boy or girl is not going to be in the body of the opposite sex without having A LITTLE BIT OF A REACTION.

[blue_rampion]

possibly she just couldn't show what Marco was thinking about the situation because that would be x-rated and definitely not allowed

I imagine it'd be less of a reaction than if you'd never morphed before AND SUDDENLY YOU ARE THE OPPOSITE GENDER, and perhaps even less than the feelings of people who are transgender, because they do know that this is only temporary...but I still wish we'd seen more. I wish I was the kind to write fic, because then I'd want to write a story does does look at how the characters actually react what it's like being the opposite gender. Although maybe I should find a way to rp this instead, hehehe...

[rena_librarian]

It's doubly ridiculous in light of one passage of Tobias'. He's waxing poetic about Rachel in eagle morph, and he's quick to assure that he's not physically attracted to the morph, because it's a male eagle that she'd acquired. (He then says something about it better representing her inner strength than her weak, oft-objectified female human body, or something like that.)

So the gender differences can be mentioned, but ONLY if they species line is crossed? WTF?

I blame Scholastic rather than Applegrant, though.

[blue_rampion]

Actually if I remember correctly, there's a few mentions of things like say, Jake, saying things like "Apparently Marco is cute, but I wouldn't know because I'm a guy", or Ax going "now that I have morphed human I can understand how Rachel is attractive, but I don't get it with Marco", which I always find...incredibly amusing. Especially since it tends to read more like they are secretly gay and denying it then "I'm not actually attracted to the same sex".

But yeah, I blame Scholastic for that too (not to mention the ridiculous panics people get into over any hint of gay characters in children's fiction).

It's kinda sad really, that the serious couldn't go more into things like how morphing would effect attraction and gender identity, because it would have been really fascinating. (But hey - that's what fan fic is for, right? XD)

[rena_librarian]

Indeed! I've gotten to where I prefer reading short, well-written fic exploring an idea like that than the long-winded multi-chapter epics I was into at fourteen. Give me depth, not breadth...I don't have time for breadth, but I can mull over depth long after I've left the screen. =)

It's funny, the loudest people pitch fits against gay characters, and yet when Rowling was all "Actually, I always pictured Dumbledore as gay..." the actual fans were all "OMG YEY!" and the world at large/media was all "Well, good for him then." (And the slashfic writers were all "I told you so! =) )

And lol. Seekritly ghey Aminorphs. Reading as a kid, to me it just came across as how teenagers talk--girls giggling over "OMG -actor- is SO hot!" and one girl's boyfriend being all "IDK. I guess." But rereading them now I can see...shall we say, Alternate Character Interpretation? =)

[blue_rampion]

I like both still, but it all depends on how it's done really.

Sadly, the Moral Guardians tend to yell the loudest - and publishers end up thinking that they have to cater to their whims.

Well, when you look at the characters over the whole of a series, I don't think any of them are actually gay. Though, some of them might be closer to the middle of the Kinsey Heterosexual-Homosexual Scale. (Certainly I don't think they were incapable of being able to tell how attractive people of the same sex are. I mean really, even ridiculously hetrosexual people could still look at someone of the same sex and go, "yes, they are in fact better looking than that person over there". Possibly it's a case of not wanting to admit that they can even see the attraction in the first place.)

As for Alternate Character Interpretations...hey, as long as it's justified and believably written...why not? XD

[rena_librarian]

See, yeah--I don't think anyone is incapable of determining relative attractiveness in a person of the gender they're not attracted to. It's whether or not they perceive admitting this as a "gay" thing or not. (...hm. People are childish.)

No, I don't think any of the main characters are canonically gay. (Gafinilan and Mertil, probably. But the Anis? Not so much.)

Heehee. I think Alternate Character Interpretation is what fandom does best.

[blue_rampion]

That is true! Also teenagers are childish, and I believe a lot of teenage boys spend a period where they don't want to be seen as "gay". (A knee-jerk reaction most will hopefully grow out of eventually...)

I don't think Grapplegate specifically wrote any of their characters as gay? Even Merlin and Gafinilan aren't completely canon, because it's not explicitly mentioned. (Still, they have enough subtext that it's pretty much accepted as practically canon anyways :P)

That is does :P

[rena_librarian]

I don't worry about the ones growing up so much as I hope that their kids will just not ever hit that phase to begin with.

(Subtext is just an anagram of buttsex!)

[blue_rampion]

Hmm, yeah. Sadly, I think we're a while off that ever happening.

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