A Choice I Made For Very Personal Reasons
In my recent post about reconsidering JK Rowling's writing of romance in the Harry Potter series in light of the additional information from her later works, I declared myself puzzled by the following words of Rowling's:
What I will say is that I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfillment.
I wrote:
And it is not quite clear ( Read more... )
What I will say is that I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfillment.
I wrote:
And it is not quite clear ( Read more... )
the other thing:
'Perhaps Hermione would grow bored with Ron as an adult. At any rate, her social capital would rise as she learned to be smoother-mannered and better-groomed, as her hard work and ambition brought her distinction and success in her chosen career. And Ron's social capital, perhaps, would diminish, as being a funny and well-liked proprietor of a novelty store is not a particularly high-status career choice, even though it might be lucrative. I can imagine that without the constant demands of Harry's exciting school years, Ron could settle into an unchallenged laziness that Hermione might find unimpressive'
doesn't seem to take into consideration Ron at 18 and older is not the same Ron at 11. Specially not after everything they all had to go through which made them mature significantly.
Ron might have slacked off in school but when he still got good grades. He put effort in training for Quidditch of his own volition repeatedly (he might not always do well but that's because his own-insecurities lead him to panic and self-sabotage- but he did well enough in Ootp/HBP for the Gryffindors to un-ironically sing 'Weasley is our King), and in PoA when he&Hermione made up, he put effort in researching ways to help Hagrid on his court appeal to save buckbeak.
I have no doubt he put the same amount of effort working as an Auror and helping in Weasley Wizard Wheezes. (also considering how chaotic some of F&G inventions are/were, I'm sure Ron got plenty of challenges helping in the store).
as for the 'social capital, perhaps, would diminish, as being a funny and well-liked proprietor of a novelty store is not a particularly high-status career choice'
why would it? Yes Ron leaves the Aurors at some point, but he's still a War Hero (probably with an order of merlin) and that wouldn't be affected by him changing professions. (In the sense of social capital, it be more ppl going 'why is a war hero working in a joke shop? but Ron's joking comment on the epilogue ('it's me I'm extremely famous') makes me think that after everything they've all been through Ron is not as interested in fame as he was when younger, instead valuing family and stability and helping make things right.
as for the 'get bored' part. Again, we never seen Hermione find Ron boring post-them becoming friends.
in fact Hermione seems to crave Ron's attention just as much she craves the professors attention.
they're constantly seeking each other out and there's hints in the books that they do stuff just the two of them.
(actually There's an excellent ron/hermione essay that explores Why Ron/Hermione work:
http://owlpostagain.tumblr.com/post/129597015066/why-ronhermione-argue
also and i might be reading too much into this, but I get the impression that people interpret Hermione 'getting bored' with Ron = they're not on the same intellectual level.
but the thing is, Hermione doesn't seem to like learning for the sake of learning, but to set herself apart/stand-out, use that knowledge for something to further a cause.
(otherwise she wouldn't had been so negative towards Harry using the HBP book, or so dismissive of Luna's theories or the possibility of the Deathly Hallows existing. )
so that seemed to me that an 'intellectual equal' would do one of two things- either 100% agree with Hermione and never challenge her because they're both so smart Or constantly challenge her but in a 'battle of egos' type thing- which I assume Hermione wouldn't like.
Not to mention Hermione herself said it herself on the friendship >intellect (""Me? Books and cleverness. There are more important things: friendship and bravery" )
so at the end of the day, it seems to me that Hermione would value someone like Ron more, someone who helps her de-stress and relax, that someone who can match her in doing a three hour presentation on elf rights, has and order of merlin,etc
But I outside of those points, I really loved reading this essay. [and think Ron/Hermione ARE credible, even if JKR no longer thinks so)
(Do you have tumblr version of this I could reblog?)
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You make some good points and I don't really think Hermione would be bored with Ron. I think they would be happy together! But I was trying (not always successfully) to think and write about what J K Rowling might have been thinking, and trying to feel my way into explaining/justifying some of the things she said like "but the combative side of it… I’m not sure you could have got over that in an adult relationship, there was too much fundamental incompatibility" and "in some ways Hermione and Harry are a better fit." You might say I'm trying to reconcile my author-worshipping with my R/Hr-shipping.
Of course it is hard for me, having enjoyed Ron and Hermione's relationship so much, to empathize with such words, but I can follow her to a certain extent. I think she designed Ron and R/Hr to be perfect for Hermione when she first created Hermione, an awkward geeky girl of 11, head-over-heels in love with the world of magic that she'd been invited into, determined to learn everything she could about it. Which is all very well and good, and it certainly caught my interest. But this was a long series. Not only did the girl Hermione age from 11 to 18, but possibly even more importantly the woman Jo Rowling aged from 25 to 42. So I think the question she was considering then was, given Hermione at 18, as she had written her growing and developing through seven books, was Ron and R/Hr what she would have created for her then. And, I suppose, five to seven years later when we can imagine Ron and Hermione must have decided to marry and start a family, same question.
I'm not saying the answer is "no" but I'm not sure the answer is "yes" either. And I imagine Rowling would be thinking less of "what would make Hermione happy?" and more of "what would make a good story?" That's where I think she mentioned the words "very little to do with literature"---she probably was realizing that probably some of her critics had a point when saying that the romance of Harry and Ginny was a bit pasted on (because it wasn't as well-integrated into the adventure action as it could have been) and the romance of Ron and Hermione also suffered from not having a point-of-view window into either character and forcing all their interactions to be either in Harry's presence or with Harry unwittingly eavesdropping. (I also think she dragged out their "getting together" unrealistically, somewhat muting its impact, but I don't think Rowling sees it that way.)
There's no doubt that a romance between Harry and Hermione, who were in fact the main two actors in the defeat of Voldemort, would have had an extra oomph from that fact. It would have also bothered me a bit, because Harry was so much "more" than Hermione and she was so clearly his sidekick, helper, and facilitator rather than his full partner, but it still would have had a strong appeal.
On the other hand, I still think if I were writing a romance for Hermione Granger, as she was at the end of the seven books, I would have a strong tendency to create a relationship for her much like Wash/Zoe in "Firefly" or Harry/Sally in "When Harry Met Sally." Maybe because that's a kind of romance that appeals to me but I think also because Hermione is still pretty uptight and intense and it's just fun and funny to pair her with someone who's loose and funny and watch them drive each other crazy. It's ... sexy. But there is more to Hermione than her workaholic intensity and I concede that there are probably multiple other types of romance plotlines and heroes that could work for her.
Unlike you, I'm very excited about The Play and I LOVE the brief glimpses we get of Ron and Hermione in the new video on Pottermore. Partly because both Ron and Hermione's actors look (and act, as far as I can tell) more like I'd imagined them than Rupert Grint and Emma Watson. Though I do wish Hermione's hair was longer and bushy because I always see her that way. Also there's a nice hug, though it appears to be the actors rather than the characters. It would make a nice gif. I wish I knew how to make them, then I'd have something to post on Tumblr!
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I was thinking this exact thing yesterday when I saw the video, but I hadn't been able to find one. So I made one. :P
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But I'm still with low expectations because after the interview of Doom, I'm too weary to be optimistic.
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FWIW it's just like LJ, copy and paste and put it under a readmore. Longish meta posts have crossed my dashboard often. If you tag it with "harry potter" and "meta" (not sure if it has a dedicated tag) it will be out in the wild for tag browsers to see too.
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I'm not saying the answer is "no" but I'm not sure the answer is "yes" either. And I imagine Rowling would be thinking less of "what would make Hermione happy?" and more of "what would make a good story?" That's where I think she mentioned the words "very little to do with literature"---she probably was realizing that probably some of her critics had a point when saying that the romance of Harry and Ginny was a bit pasted on (because it wasn't as well-integrated into the adventure action as it could have been) and the romance of Ron and Hermione also suffered from not having a point-of-view window into either character and forcing all their interactions to be either in Harry's presence or with Harry unwittingly eavesdropping. (I also think she dragged out their "getting together" unrealistically, somewhat muting its impact, but I don't think Rowling sees it that way.)
YES to all of this. Even the last bit.
I think truly good "from agitation to true love" storylines aren't dragged out. Because after a while, you realize they'd just give up. I mean, on one hand, I don't think Hermione marrying a guy she dated in her fourth year was realistic. OTOH, it really could've just been settled in HBP. I actually thought they were a couple at the end of HBP, because they're shown by the lake embracing. Harry and Ginny made a little more sense - they did break up, but only because Harry was worried for her safety.
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-Hermione first showed that she is terrified of failure in that first monologue in PS when the trio first met on the train when she said “I’ve learnt all our set books off by heart, of course, I just hope it will be enough”. This idea is reinforced later on as well, such as the fact her Boggart is failure, how upset she was when she thought she made a mistake on the Ancient Runes OWL exam or how freaked out she was before she received her OWL results.
-When Harry couldn’t use the HBP textbook to produce an antidote to poison, Hermione was seen as smirking because “she loathed being outperformed in every Potions class”. This is on top of her frustration at Harry’s potion success earlier in the books.
-There was an exchange between Ron and Hermione when they were discussing the Half Blood Prince’s spells. Ron told Hermione that she didn’t like the Prince because “he’s better than you at Potions” then Hermione blushed before saying using spells not Ministry-approved was irresponsible. Then I remembered in OotP Hermione didn’t mind using a jinx that scarred Marietta for life after she betrayed the DA so I don’t think Hermione really was against using unorthodox spells.
-Then there was also the remark Ron made to Hermione in PoA that she didn’t like Divination because she wasn’t good at the subject which caused quite a disproportionately strong reaction from her.
-In HBP when she shouted to Harry “The truth is that you don’t think a girl would have been clever enough” after an argument about whether the Prince was a boy or girl. As Harry said nothing of the sorts in the argument, it’s likely she was revealing the fear that herself is not clever enough.
Finally, we can’t forget that Hermione does not like to be proven wrong or admit she made a mistake which will not help with her happiness if she married someone cleverer than her.
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(although I disagree slightly over her not liking someone who does better than her- After all she never shown to have any issues with Harry definitely being Better than her in DADA, and even says that Harry IS better than her in it. )
one other thing- The scars on Marietta weren' 'permanent'. JKR said in an interview that they would fade over time.
(people think so because Hermione cursed Marrietta in 5th year and she still had the scars in 6th year they think = permanent.
but I calculated that Hermione cursed marietta around april/may 1996- and then harry sees her september 1996- so that's only 6 months)
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Yes, I know that Hermione seemed fine with Harry being better than her in DADA but are there any scenes that showed she was actually happy about it? The scene in OotP where they discussed it after Harry came back from one of Umbridge’s detentions gave me the impression that Hermione was just stating a fact just like how she told Harry matter-of-factly that he has never been more “fanciable” in HBP. I forgot to add how Hermione didn’t seem pleased by her OWL results because she got an E in DADA and Harry got an O. Furthermore there are all those times when she felt flattered after someone else like Ron or Harry praised her intelligence or when she was really eager to answer teachers’ questions and looked disappointed if they didn’t pick her.
Therefore this single incident doesn’t negate her constant desire to show she is really smart. What other reasons could there be for her dislike of the half-blood prince textbook to the point that she would dismiss the fact it helped Harry to save Ron’s life (not everyone can remember what Snape said 5 years ago like she does)?
Of course she couldn’t stop her friends from being better than her in some areas like how Ron is better than her at flying and chess. My point here is that if Hermione married another genius as a lot of her “fans” want her to do she will be frustrated and annoyed whenever he is better than her at something academically, so in some ways she is the opposite to Dumbledore who loved having Grindelwald around until he showed his true colours.
As for the scars, I was referring to the scars that were left on Marietta’s face after the pimples that spelt the word “SNEAK” faded rather than the pimples themselves. Yes, the pimples eventually faded (even though it was still there in HBP) but it was confirmed by JKR the scars were left on her face permanently.
The relevant section of the interview is given below:
Q: Did Marietta's pimply formation ever fade?
JK Rowling: Eventually, but it left a few scars. I loathe a traitor!
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