Plot Without Porn

[angearia]

What's your definition?

To me, Plot Without Porn means that the plot isn't about sex.  There can be sex in the story, but sex shouldn't be the goal or the end-all-be-all.  Which means that you can dance that fine line and have sex in your story and it would still be Plot Without Porn, but it's harder to do.  I suppose the reason why people think of

Comments

[beer_good_foamy]

*shrug*

Porn = Explicit depictions/descriptions of sex, mainly intended to arouse.

Without Porn = Everything else, even if it deals with sex. The TV series, for instance.

Just think of Faith inside Buffy's body when she's taking that bubble bath.

Great, there goes my whole evening...

[angearia]

So Plot Without Porn means a removal of explicit descriptions of sex. So cutaway scenes, watercolor scenes of sex...

I think there's exceptions, though. Like Buffy and Spike first having sex in Smashed. That is very graphic (as graphic as it can get on network TV), yet for all that they're having sex, sex isn't the sum total of their interaction. So I still think there's a fine line where you can have graphic sex, but that it doesn't detract from the plot.

What bothers me most of all is when sex is used as a solution. ZOMG they had sex and now they're going to live happily ever after! The end. Or ZOMG they had sex and they just need to keep doing it until they trust and love each other enough so they can live happily ever after, because if they have sex enough times, then surely they'll be happy! The end.

Great, there goes my whole evening...Just trying to keep you entertained. And it's not like I need to remind you of that scene, do I...? It suddenly occurs to me that someone should make a GIF of that moment for all the

[beer_good_foamy]

I think there's exceptions, though. Like Buffy and Spike first having sex in Smashed.

I'd say that's not an exception, it's a very good example. It's sexy, yeah, but I don't see it as porn.

Of course, courts have been trying and failing to define porn since the Roman Empire, so...

And it's not like I need to remind you of that scene, do I...?

Not really. :-) This was my Faith/Buffy icon for ages:

[angearia]

Perhaps the simplest way to define it is a story with a strong plot that lacks gratuitous sex...

Meaning sex can be in the story, but it's not overdone and it's not the whole point of the plot.

My head hurts now.

[gabrielleabelle]

I always learned PWP to mean "Plot? What Plot?" But I know there's variation in that.

Anyway, a PWP to me is a fic where the entire point of the fic is to get the characters to have sex. It's all about the sex. The set-up, what little there is, is there to get them to have sex. Sex. Sex. Sex.

Cause, when you're writing, you sit back and go, "What's the point of this story? What am I trying to say?"

If the answer is, "Buffy and Spike have hot sex.", then it's a PWP.

If it's anything else - "Buffy and Spike adopt a dog and grow closer as a result" or "Buffy and Spike are trapped in a cave together and learn some things about their relationship" or "Buffy and Spike quit the evil-fighting and start up a pizza delivery place" - even if it has a sex scene, it's not a PWP.

But, if we're using the term "Plot Without Porn", then that implicitly means there's no sex scene at all (to me, at least).

Did that make any sense? Likely not. Ah well.

[angearia]

I think with "Plot Without Porn" though, I don't see any sex scene as the equivalent of porn, ya know?

I really like the way quinara expressed it below.

[gabrielleabelle]

Ah, I take "porn" to mean just about any sex scene. I don't see much of a distinction there.

Which just means my own contribution to the ficathon will be completely sex-free. :)

[a2zmom]

I define it pretty much as you have. Truthfully, I really read PWP now unless the writer is really good. Straight porn is boring if that's all there is.

[angearia]

Agreed. And it's even more boring to write straight porn.

[quinara]

Hmm, my definition for plot_wout_porn last year was basically just that every scene (including and especially sex scenes) in a fic had to serve a visible plot, so the sex could be as explicit as whatever as long as it forwarded momentum (say, for example, if Buffy and Spike were staking out a giant diamond that was in danger of being stolen for a ritual, I'd be perfectly happy with NC-17 sex distracting them while a moose demon comes along and nicks it, creating the necessity for a madcap re-acquisition adventure). For me the idea is all about removing arbitrary sex scenes (ie. the feeling that there must be a sex scene somewhere), which so often seem to make or break whether a fic gets read. I don't think it should exclude any sort of sex, because to me that's just as arbitrary, and if you're going to write a good plot, you want to have every weapon in your arsenal available.

[angearia]

Yes, I completely agree. That's a great way to put it. (And LOL! to the moose demon that nicked the diamond while Spike and Buffy were boinking.)

[quinara]

Boy, were their faces red when they lied about explained that one to Giles... ;)

[stormwreath]

To me, the expression "plot without porn" implies more than just a story which doesn't hinge around sex; it implies no sex whatsoever. Or at least no sex that's meant to be erotic and arouse the reader (it is called "porn", after all).

So, for example, when I wrote 'One Day In The Life Of Buffy Summers', my aim was, basically, let my readers experience vicariously what it would be like for a woman to live one day inside a man's body. (And have fun showing Buffy's reaction to it all.) I threw in all the details I could to convey the physical experience - and of course it was inevitable that sex was going to be a part of that, by the very nature of a genderswap. But it wasn't the point of the story

[angearia]

Except since when is sex the same thing as porn? That's my problem. Sex in fiction is not always porn, so either the description should be "Plot Without Sex" or it means that you can have sex, but not on such an explicit and gratuitous level that it becomes porn. Where that line is drawn, well...

It's all subjective, isn't it? Is all sex in fiction then porn? I say no. Which means that it should be possible to have sex in fanfic that qualifies as "plot without porn."

Any chance you know where the term "plot without porn" came from?

[stormwreath]

Hmm. I can see the point you're making, but I'm still floundering about in the dark. As the actress said to the bishop. Which, if you didn't know, is the British equivalent of "That's what she said!"

Do you define porn as "writing about sex which is deliberately meant to titillate and arouse the reader"? Or are you defining it as "writing about sex which is lacking in any context or artistic merit, and serves only to help the reader (or writer) get off"?

The problem with the second is that it's basically a subjective value judgement. It's the old cliché of "I'm a sophisticated and refined person who enjoys erotica; you're a dirty pervert who likes porn". Views and attitudes expressed in the preceding sentence are not necessarily those of the author. You say below, "Porn, to me, is gratuitous sex without any threads to plot or literary merit." but how do you judge that

[eowyn_315]

Except since when is sex the same thing as porn?

When it's explicit - something you'd see in a porn film rather than your average movie or TV show. I'd say any sex that gets an NC-17 rating in a fic qualifies as "porn."

And it doesn't have to be gratuitous. I'd agree with stormwreath that his genderswap fic includes porn, no matter how integral the sex is to the plot, because it's explicit and would never have been allowed on the TV show or even in an R-rated movie.

If your Plot Without Porn fic absolutely needs a sex scene, it should be either a fade to black or a fuzzy watercolor sex scene without explicit description of what's happening. Otherwise, it's not Plot Without Porn. It's Plot With Porn That's Not The Main Focus of the Fic. Which is a perfectly fine category of fic (it's pretty much all I write) - it's just not the purpose of a Plot Without Porn ficathon.