"Time of Your Life" meta

[angearia]

I've been reading old reviews of Buffy Season 8, pondering the season and re-evaluating the story, and once again "Time of Your Life" has me wondering.

Spoilers for all of Season 8

Comments

[stormwreath]

You wrote Season 8 meta!!! ♥

I pretty much agree with your interpretation although I can think of other possibilities too. I've tended to see the importance of TOYL more from Buffy's perspective - how much of a radical change it marked in her story, and how much it influenced her actions in the second half of the season. Not only having to kill her best friend, but learning that ultimately, she failed - her grand experiment in creating the Slayer Army would come to nothing. Hence, perhaps, her willingness to grab Angel with both hands when he offered a different solution.

It's quite possible Future!Willow was manipulating events 200 years in her past because she needed Buffy to do something differently, or be in a different frame of mind. The other alternative is that her plan had nothing to do with our own time except tangentially - she needed Buffy for her own purposes.

Scott Allie suggested that Willow, after 200 years, simply wanted to die and wanted Buffy to be the one to kill her. That seems a bit weak to me, although it fits the facts as written. (Though maybe Future!Willow had some sort of guilt complex about what she'd had to do to survive so long, and thought Buffy killing her would assuage her guilt.)

Alternatively, maybe Future!Willow learned that by her own self-sacrifice she could restore magic to the world again in Fray's time... but only if she was killed by the Scythe. The proper Scythe, the one Buffy destroyed while breaking the Seed. The only way to get access to it was by time-travel: for her to bring Buffy, plus the Scythe, forward to her own time. So she engineered that, and also had to push Buffy into a mood where she would be willing to use the Scythe on her best friend. The emotional effects on Buffy and the S8 plot, by this reading, were secondary to Willow's true plan.

I imagine Willow showed Fray the spacefrak and the resulting apocalypse.

I'm not so sure: why would Melaka care about Buffy sleeping with some guy she's never seen before? I actually think what she showed her was Buffy breaking the Seed and the Scythe. Mel knows about the Scythe; it's important to her and seeing Buffy break it would be a shock. Then when Willow told her that Buffy's actions were the cause of there being no more Slayers for 200 years, and the reason why Mel herself was left unprepared and alone to face the next apocalypse - that's when I think she'd decide Buffy had to be stopped.

[angearia]

I did! Look at that! ♥

This is the thing about ToYL that makes it so enjoyable for me, but it's also really frustrating for a lot of people. We're grasping at straws for specifics when it comes to the questions I posed. I think we have to interpret a lot and that gets dicey.

I pretty much agree with your interpretation although I can think of other possibilities too.

So can I. This was what my gut + brain was telling me last night. :)

It's quite possible Future!Willow was manipulating events 200 years in her past because she needed Buffy to do something differently, or be in a different frame of mind. The other alternative is that her plan had nothing to do with our own time except tangentially - she needed Buffy for her own purposes.

Scott Allie suggested that Willow, after 200 years, simply wanted to die and wanted Buffy to be the one to kill her.

I didn't mention Willow wanting to die, but I actually think that's also a huge motivation here. I just think there's more in play.

I'm still torn on whether Willow's actions were meant to change anything or alternately, if Willow knew that she was just playing her part to fulfill history. I'd like to think she didn't spend 200 years planning this out only to fail in getting Buffy to save magic. I'd hope acceptance comes to her eventually. Besides, Future Willow struck me as someone who had found acceptance finally, but needed help in dying.

It's really fascinating to ponder.

I'm not so sure: why would Melaka care about Buffy sleeping with some guy she's never seen before? I actually think what she showed her was Buffy breaking the Seed and the Scythe.

Hmm, I still disagree. It's not Buffy sleeping with a guy that's bad, it's that Buffy sleeping with a guy starts THE END OF THE WORLD. Clearly, supervillain territory from Fray's perspective. Why would Fray care about the end of magic? She's never had magic, so she wouldn't place value on it. Further, why would she care about Buffy breaking the Scythe (in the past) when she's got her own working Scythe in the present. Fray's primary motivation is the belief that Buffy will destroy her world by going back to the past -- which makes sense if Willow showed Buffy starting an apocalypse (only Willow didn't show Buffy ending it).

[stormwreath]

LJ ate my reply. grrr. Let's see how much I can reconstruct...

Given that Future!Willow indeed didn't stop Buffy breaking the Seed - if anything, she helped make it happen - it's definitely more satisfying to think that her plan succeeded because it involved something happening to her, then, in the year 22-whatever, than that it was all about us here now.

Just looking at the scenes in 8.19 more closely: Willow is casting some sort of spell, there's flickers of white energy like lightning around her hand and eyes. Then when Buffy impales her, a vast amount of the same white energy shoots out of her in all directions and up into the sky like a pillar of fire. Finally we close up on Willow's face and see her eyes have changed back to hazel instead of black, and the veins are fading away from her face, and she looks peaceful.

My reading? She had the last of the world's magic carefully saved up inside her body, and being killed with the Scythe allowed it to flow back into the Earth to restore it to how it was before. With the magic leaving her body, she can die as a normal woman again.

Why would Fray care about the end of magic?

Not so much the magic, but the end of the Slayer line specifically. That heritage means a lot to her (see 'Tales of the Slayers') and watching Buffy apparently destroy it all deliberately would hurt.

On the other hand, Willow does say her reasons for opposing Buffy are "more personal" than Harth's schemes for world domination, so maybe what she showed Melaka was more about her. Breaking the Seed, depriving Willow of her power and bringing her literally down to earth with a bump would qualify, and also give the message "Buffy doesn't care about anybody but herself" which is how Willow wants Mel to think.

On the other hand, I could see her showing the space sex too, but more from the personal angle - claiming that Buffy was cheating on her ;). Or perhaps even shocking Mel with the idea that a Slayer would sleep with a vampire - old hat to us, but not to her; and it also fits with her previous comment, "The most important men in both your lives are lurks". Again, that would impel Mel not to trust Buffy: she's lost the mission, she only cares about herself.

[angearia]

it's definitely more satisfying to think that her plan succeeded because it involved something happening to her, then, in the year 22-whatever, than that it was all about us here now

I feel like Willow living for 200 hundred years alone and then manipulating her best friend to kill her is already so OMGTRAGIC that I have trouble imagining Joss would also make her plan hopeless and ineffectual. He veers towards the dark, but the purpose has always seemed to be to starkly contrast that one remaining flicker of hope that remains strong enough to once again blaze bright. (I was reading Beer Good's meta on Whedon's use of Shakespeare and a comparison in comments was about how Whedon's more hopeful than Shakespeare; his tragedies aren't as tragic as the Bard's.)

My reading? She had the last of the world's magic carefully saved up inside her body, and being killed with the Scythe allowed it to flow back into the Earth to restore it to how it was before. With the magic leaving her body, she can die as a normal woman again

Ah, yes! I'd forgotten about that but yes that's something I subscribe to.

Re: Mel and the vision Willow showed her -- I think Willow was more interested in showing Mel something that would be meaningful to Melaka, less so to Willow. I don't think Mel would necessarily care about the army of Slayers being broken in the past; and maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but I believe the mythology for Fray states that girls in the 200 years still had the power, but none were Called, so I'm not sure how terrible and far-reaching this is supposed to be in terms of future Slayers.

This is actually interesting on another level in terms of another conversation I've been having with Pocochina about Chosen and the Potentials. If the Potentials were born with inherent power and the Chosen spell was about reversing the magic imposed by the Shadowmen -- then by rights, shouldn't the power still pass on from body to body, life to life? The Chosen spell didn't give these girls power, it removed the lock on the power they already possessed; once that impediment has been removed, what's to stop more Slayers in future generations? It follows the Fray mythos: Girls still born with the power, but none Called.

I like your point about how Willow's reasons are more personal. Though I think her personal reasons are ones she'd keep close to her heart; I don't think she'd show Mel her greatest tragedy in order to manipulate Mel. Future Willow is all about showing just enough to manipulate the players on her chessboard. And ultimately, what defines her ToYL appearance is the obfuscation and mystery of her true intentions and purpose -- so I don't think she'd reveal what mattered most to her in that vision to Mel. And when it comes to convincing Mel that Buffy is a danger, what better way than showing Buffy starting the apocalypse (which actually had catastrophic casualities even though it was ultimately averted).

[stormwreath]

I think Willow would show Mel whatever it took to convince her both that Buffy must be stopped, and that Willow's reasons for that were personal and justifiable. She'd lie or distort events if needed, but sometimes the truth is even more effective.

On the other hand, Mel didn't seem to regard Buffy as an evil apocalypse-starting monster; simply that she was too selfish and self-absorbed to care about destroying Mel's world when she went back to her own.

(And in light of 8.39/40 you can substitute "Willow's" for "Mel's" into that last sentence if you like.)

If the Potentials were born with inherent power and the Chosen spell was about reversing the magic imposed by the Shadowmen -- then by rights, shouldn't the power still pass on from body to body, life to life?

You'd think, but sadly I think the effects of breaking the Seed are "whatever we want them to be". For that matter, everyone's talking about how witches draw magical power from other dimensions, and ar now cut off from them - but didn't Willow's power in 7.22 come from the Earth? As in, this Earth which is still here?

[angearia]

I need to reread ToYL again, tbh. I'm going based on memory which works well enough, but I think I'd have more solid theories based upon the impression given by the art/writing/mood. There's all kinds of cues that I'm no doubt not considering here.

So we should raincheck on this convo? Though even after reading ToYL, I still feel like Season 9 is an essential missing piece of the puzzle.

You'd think, but sadly I think the effects of breaking the Seed are "whatever we want them to be".

In a way, it's always like this. The phlebotinum will yield to the master. But I keep getting stuck on that line from Fray, that girls had the power, but none were Called.

[stormwreath]

You don't keep all the S8 TPBs right next to your computer for instant reference? Shame. SHAME.

;-)

[angearia]

Haha, I actually don't have all the TPBs, just the individual issues. I've been waiting for the deluxe edition to be released!