Interesting Links for 31-01-2014

[andrewducker]

• Smoking ban in cars with children unenforceable
  (tags: politics law smoking cars )
• Currying vs partial function application (in C#)
  (tags: programming c# )
• Nine Things to Expect from HTTP/2
  (tags: internet web http )
• Dredging rivers won't stop floods. It will make them worse
  (tags: rivers environment )
• Grumpy Disney is the new best thing ever
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Comments

[danieldwilliam]

I think on a practical level banning smoking in cars when there are children present is about as enforceable as banning using mobile phones when driving. Which is to say, very enforceable if you wish to pick up all the paperwork.

I think Clegg has missed one of the roles of law. Laws help create social norms. They don’t just prevent unwanted behaviour by making people scared about being caught and punished. They create a rallying point around which people moderate their own and others’ behaviours.

[bart_calendar]

You honestly believe that?

My experience is that people ignore laws if they don't like the law and think they can get away with it.

If they created "social norms" people wouldn't have been smoking so much pot over the years.

[danieldwilliam]

I didn’t say they were perfect at it.

It’s more a case of motion towards. Or the upstream part of American Legal Realism in action.

And plenty of people buy the line that pot = illegal = bad.

[alitheapipkin]

I'd generally agree with you but the number of people I see still using their mobiles in cars around here, and, more to point, the number of times I see police ignoring it, makes me wonder if trying to ban things people do in 'the privacy' of their own cars, is as pointless as trying to ban stuff people do in the privacy of their own homes...

[ajr]

The problem is not the law itself but the fact that it's not being enforced. If the police did enforce it, if they did crack down on people breaking the law, and if the message was reinforced by TV spots emphasising that phone use while driving is bad and wrong (think a modern day 'clunk-click' campaign, say), then it would work.

[alitheapipkin]

Fair point, and I agree, but are the police going to be any keener to enforce this if it becomes law? I suspect not.

[danieldwilliam]

I’m with you on this. Are they going to enforce the law? Probably not, unless you irritate them by calling them a pleb.

I think everyone has seen the police pretty much drive by someone in a car on their mobile.

If they were inclined to they could. They could pull over everyone they saw. They could use CCTV or photographs to ping people for it. (And in the science fictional future some dumb AI will do this automatically.)

I’m reminded of the drink driving campaigns in Australia when I was a kid. Not sure if they did similar things over her. Every Friday or Saturday night the police would set up a road block on a major road in my town. Four or police cars and a couple of vans. They would then pull over everyone and breathalize them. Fines, arrests, impounding of car if there were no alternative driver. Casual drink drivers soon got the message. Persistent drink drivers soon had their license taken away.

Obviously harder to pull people over in that way for mobile phone usage but it’s a question of will on the part of the police.

[cybik]

Well, fewer people smoke pot than cigarettes and they're more or less equivalent in harm (and in the UK probably not *that* different in price, considering how little actual marijuana goes into joints and how much tobacco costs).

It's more a nudging in the right direction rather than a perfect solution with regards to the law about smoking in cars with kids. I think it'll at least make people think about it before doing it, and it gives a clear signal that it's not a good thing to do.

[danieldwilliam]

and a fantastic opportunity for kids to nag their parents about smoking in the car with them.

[ajr]

You honestly believe that?

Well, it worked for seatbelts.

[bart_calendar]

I think what worked for seatbelts was insurance companies raising premiums quite a bit if you got a no seatbelt ticket.