Interesting Links for 28-06-2013

[andrewducker]

• Pandora Pays Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays
  (tags: streaming music business )
• One tweet sums up Labour’s new, confused stance on cuts
  (tags: politics uk labour )
• What does Windows 8.1 offer to desktop die-hards?
  (tags: windows microsoft )
• Spending Review explanation 'was woeful', IFS says
  (tags: politics uk money )
• What happens if you run a 4

Comments

[bart_calendar]

My understanding is that while undercover police officers often have to do drugs, have sex, etc... in order to maintain their cover. It's shitty, but I'm fairly sure it's part of the job.

Also this sort of comes under the heading of "if I knew the person was an asshole I wouldn't have slept with them."

[bart_calendar]

And part of me thinks that calling "lying to get sex" rape sort of trivializes the word "rape."

I once slept with a woman who claimed to be 35 and single only to find out afterward that she was 45 and married. Did she rape me or was it simply a case of someone being an asshole in order to get laid?

When Rome Girl first met me online she pretended to be way into Metallica in order to pique my interest even though she's since admitted she hates Metallica. Was that rape? Or just her chatting me up online?

[andrewducker]

It depends on (a) what you mean by "rape", and (b) whether you believe there's a continuum there.

If "rape" means "sexual assault, including penetration", then what they did is not rape.

If it means "Sex without consent", then it comes down to whether you believe that consent based on fraud is really consent. It certainly doesn't in any kind of financial transaction.

I suspect that we're moving towards the latter, as a societal change, and that what was once seen as douchebaggery will be seen as something more serious in the future (as with many other things, like "hazing" (now assault), and "banter" (now bullying, and frequently racism/misogyny).

[bart_calendar]

The thing is though with sex there is always/often a bit of misrepresentation going on. "Yes, I love the way that skirt looks on you." "Oh, no, McDonald's is a fine place for a date."

If a woman says at the end of a date "Do you want to come up to my flat, just for a drink?" and then undresses as soon as you are in the door is that misrepresentation that could be construed as an assault?

I a woman sees me in my Misfits T-shirt and claims to love the Misfits to get me talking and I go back to her place to shag and then find out the next day that she's really a Hall & Oates fan do I have the right to say 'That was rape because there is no way in hell I would have willingly slept with a Hall & Oates fan."

If a bisexual woman lists herself as "lesbian" on a dating site because she knows that many lesbians won't even consider a date with a bisexual girl is she committing a type of fraud that could lead to charges?

It seems like a very slippery slope to me.

[ajr]

If it means "Sex without consent", then it comes down to whether you believe that consent based on fraud is really consent. It certainly doesn't in any kind of financial transaction.ISTR there was an episode of Ally McBeal which centred around this issue. A woman sued a man for pretending he liked the things she liked, and when she found out he was fibbing about those things she sued him for fraud on the grounds he was only pretending in order to shag her. I forget how it concluded exactly - indeed, I forget most of the episode except for the general concept as it was a only time ago and I only saw half of it - but I vaguely recall the moral of the story was that sometimes people do pretend to be interested in things they aren't but that's because they're in love and want to make the person they love happy. Or something

[andrewducker]

"Who among us can honestly say we've haven't pretended to like football or rom-coms or any other hobby because it happens to be the hobby that someone we like enjoys?"

Um, me. I'll show an interest, because I'm interested in what other people like, and why. But I'm not going to pretend to _like_ something else - that closes off all sorts of interesting conversations about differences, and our actual tastes in things.

Oh, and it doesn't negate the consent - the consent didn't exist in the first place, because you didn't consent to sleeping with _that_ person, you consented to sleeping with the person they were pretending to be.

[andrewducker]

See, for instance, this case, where a court found there was deception around gender:
http://www.complicity.co.uk/blog/2013/06/court-of-appeal-confirms-stealth-trans-people-having-sex-are-criminals/

[bart_calendar]

That case is even more bullshit because trans people are the gender they identify as. There is no deception at all.

[del_c]

Wasn't there also that case in Israel where the woman said "he told me he was Jewish!"?

[bart_calendar]

Yes. And I found that claim to be trivializing rape claims as well.

[steer]

part of me thinks that calling "lying to get sex" rape sort of trivializes the word "rape."

Exactly this. It's pretty offensive IMHO. I mean I understand the Guardian wanting to have a go at undercover policeman because that's their thing but it's a bit OTT. We accept that sort of thinking then every one of us (virgins excepted) is a multiple rapist who's been multiply raped -- and what's more we don't really care about it.

[andrewducker]

Every single one of us?

I can think of at least three relationships I've had which weren't based on any lies about anything about myself. Are you saying that all of yours involved lying your partner into bed?

[steer]

Absolutely every single relationship I've ever had involves lies... admittedly I'm a pretty honest person so these lies are of the "No, just fine... don't worry about it" or "Well I quite enjoyed the film really" type to keep the peace.

If someone tells me their relationship doesn't involve lies I assume they're lying, an arsehole(*) or the have a more flexible definition of lies than I do.

(*) Only an areshole would actually tell the truth all the time.

[andrewducker]

There's a massive difference between "Yeah, the film was alright." and "I am a millionaire who will take you on exciting trips around the world."

And, frankly, none of the relationships that didn't involve awful behaviour on my part would have not happened based on whether I liked/disliked a movie.

[steer]

Sure -- absolutely. But on the other hand if you didn't ever lie, you'd be a dreadful person and you'd certainly not be in any relationship except possibly with someone with a similar sociopathic tendancy.

[andrewducker]

Really?

What lies should I be telling? Because I honestly can't think of any that I have been.