Interesting Links for 21-06-2013

[andrewducker]

• Offensive, iconoclastic internet trolls will NOT be prosecuted, says DPP
  (tags: freespeech law uk epicwin )
• The Gov.uk website's design principles
  (tags: uk web government design )
• Naked rambler Stephen Gough jailed for flouting Asbo
  (tags: law uk nudity )
• Violent men won't change until they accept they are the problem
  (tags: violence )
• On “Geek”

Comments

Re: Minimum wage

[del_c]

Yes, you can, it's called socialism, and it's the only reason capitalism has survived its own suicidal tendencies so long. Thousands of years ago, kings regularly declared that nobody owed their debts anymore; they had to, because debt was destroying the system.

I'm re-reading Steven Johnson's The Ghost Map, about urban sewage collection and the London cholera of the 1840s, and the system they had for collecting dog shit off the streets was to pay children to pick it up with their fingers and deliver it to tanners for cleaning leather. But the tanners didn't pay much, because who wants dog shit that badly? You cannae change the laws of economics!

Only we did change the laws of economics. Rich people are now taxed to pay for sewers under the ground and state-employed street cleaners, and they are prohibited by law from employing children. It's not true that you can't declare cheap essential services and good working wages. Civilisation actually gets better when you do that, albeit at the terrible risk of a scraggly hedge and fewer Starbucks per block.

[gwendally]

Ah, now you are bringing another issue into the mix. Socialism certainly is a creditable answer to the tragedy of the commons, or any service, really, where my lack of valuing it sufficiently causes my neighbor to die. Compelling me to pay for a water sewer treatment plant is morally appropriate.

But is it morally appropriate to compel me to pay for my neighbor's landscaping service? What if I am perfectly fine with a raggedy look, preferring nature to look natural? And what if I make my own pot of coffee each morning (having bought fair trade organic coffee beans), must I be compelled to pay for my neighbor's desire to not bother with washing their own coffee pot?

I balance my checkbook, but some people will pay a bit for that service, just as I pay someone a bit to change my oil for me. If he required $200 to do it, I would decline his services and just do it myself. They can ASK for $200, but in the absence of compulsion they won't be engaged by me! Would you compel me to purchase oil changes that cost more than I value? On what moral grounds?

[del_c]

No, I'm not bringing another issue into the mix, I'm still on the same issue: capitalism spirals into depression and poverty on its own, it straightens out and flies right when you add socialism. That's the capitalist case for socialism. I understand you might want to change the subject and talk about how taxes are immoral instead.

[gwendally]

Also, it most certainly is NOT rich people paying for the sewage treatment plant. Perhaps that was how it was originally spun, but it is every homeowner paying it, and they factor it into the rent they require to make it worth (extensive) bother of owning residential rental units instead of bonds. In my city the average senior citizen lives in a paid for home on $14000 year income. From this income they must pay the municipal real property tax bill - it is based on the assessed value of the residence, not their income. When the good people of the town get together and declare that our civilized duty is to provide X service, you have to be completely aware that you are compelling poor people to pay for increased taxes.

Taxes are compulsion. Try really hard to weigh that in the moral balance.