Interesting Links for 22-03-2013

[andrewducker]

• Public consultation backs lowering drink drive limit in Scotland
  (tags: scotland alcohol driving )
• Cyrpus bailout plan: good idea, badly implemented?
  (tags: banking cyprus )
• Why Charlie Stross doesn't self-publish (much the same reason I'm not a contractor)
  (tags: charlesstross writing publishing )
• Trans woman commits suicide after being bullied

Comments

[bart_calendar]

I really wanted to have sympathy for the guy in the racist joke incident but he is a far bigger asshole then the two people who told the joke

[bart_calendar]

I've also teased people from the Netherlands that their language has too many fucking consonants. I guess I'm racist against Dutch people.

[naath]

I don't think all jokes about languages are racist, certainly not. But I think that this joke was - not because it made fun of Chinese, but because it says that Chinese is "just" "random noises", which is clearly not true. I also think that this sort of joke (which is often funny) is not really super appropriate for telling

I totally agree with you that his write-up puts him in a bad light too.

I think the company responded pretty well - minor incident, so get together a meeting to try and see if everyone can agree on a good way to proceed, keep the meeting civil and professional as much as possible.

[bart_calendar]

See, I took the joke as a variation of the famous joke in Kentucky Fried Movie where there are two Chinese martial arts experts and one American martial arts expert about to fight each other to the death and one is named "Long Wang", the other is "Hung Wow" and the American is named "Enormous Genitals."

I.e. just making fun of how the language sounds to an untrained and uneducated ear.

I don't think this particular telling of the joke is particularly funny, but I don't think it's directed at people. It's directed at sounds.

[marrog]

I think there's a question here as to what one would count under the term 'race'. I don't know if I've ever thought about where language fits in a cultural context particularly, but if it doesn't fit under race I dunno where it fits. Clearly race isn't just about ethnicity - if it was, someone in Britain complaining about filthy Poles stealing their jobs wouldn't be racists - and they are. So clearly 'race' is a complicated cultural package, and I can't see why language doesn't fit under that

[andrewducker]

I have a post I keep meaning to write about how many jokes are just fine _between friends_ where everyone knows the situation, but absolutely not on when you're posting publicly, to an audience that has no idea how serious you're being, and what your context is.

[bart_calendar]

The thing is though that the writer makes it clear that the people telling the joke thought they were telling it to a mate in a safe space. The fact that the dude cried when he was told that he was not a good friend of the writer, demonstrates that pretty perfectly.

[bart_calendar]

Also, wow is the writer consistently offensive in their other blog posts.

In one he says that he considers Asbergers syndrome a "gift" and a "blessing."

In other he says "I feel unspeakable sadness and disappointment whenever I compare myself to my nephew."

The reason? Because his nephew (a toddler) doesn't like playing football and he fears he's destined to become a "sissy."

So, yeah, I do not have any problem with anyone saying a joke about language to a homophobic, abelist piece of shit.

Beyond that, in reading his blog I found out that he is not Chinese - which makes him taking offense another stepped removed from racism.

[marrog]

So, hang on, stepping back for a moment; you're saying that if you think someone's a cock, it's okay to offend them with racist abuse - and therefore, by implication, abuse relating to any other protected characteristics? I hear that Stephen Hawking's kind of a dick, and if he was a dick to me I wouldn't have any qualms about abusing him for it, but I probably wouldn't choose to call him a 'spaz' in the process...

[bart_calendar]

No. I'm saying that in his blog this person admits to saying all sorts of horrible things to the people he's working with - and makes fun of the way people from Singapore talk when he's with these people.

He also makes fun of sissies in front of these people.

I'm saying that given that he makes fun of people of other races, sexualities and for having mental health issues - while he is working with them - he has created a space where they should be able to reasonably assume they can do the same without offending him- for example that since he makes fun of the way people from Singapore speak, it would be OK to make fun of the way Chinese people speak.

You can't make fun of the way people from one country speak and, then when it can be used to your professional advantage, complain when someone makes fun of the way people from another country speak.

[marrog]

Bullshit, yes you can. You were wrong, you weren't called out. They were wrong, you called them out. Does it make you a cock of the highest order? Yes. Does it make it okay for other people to be racist at you? Clearly not.

[bart_calendar]

It makes me think that he's pretending to be offended because he doesn't like overweight women and gay men and this was a gay to get a fat girl and gay man in trouble and have power over them.

Non discrimination laws should not be taken advantage of to support and promote your position in the patriarchy.

He's making a mockery of their intended purpose. And, that's much, much more offensive.

[erindubitably]

Beyond that, in reading his blog I found out that he is not Chinese - which makes him taking offense another stepped removed from racism.

The fact that someone assumed he was Chinese and talked to him about 'his' language when he is, in fact, not Chinese is even more racist (the whole 'well they all look alike'). If they are such good mates as was their defence then they should've known this, and the fact that they didn't just goes to show how clueless they were being.

[bart_calendar]

Well, he admits he tells people he's chinese because he doesn't like Singaporians (even though he's from Singapore) and doesn't want people to think of him as Singaporian.

I'm sorry, I really want to have some sympathy for this dude but I don't.

The take I get from this is that he doesn't like the woman because she's overweight (something he says in other posts) and doesn't like the guy because he's gay (which he hints at) and used this as a way to fuck with him because he doesn't like fat chicks and gay men.

[marrog]

Bart, I'm gonna have to bail out of this one. Your argument's all over the place. It's totally internally inconsistent and you clearly just don't like this guy and therefore feel like it's fine to do whatever to him. You're not engaging rationally here, sorry.

[bart_calendar]

Sorry. I'm reading additional blog posts of his while responding (because I'm astounded at how awful he is.)

Don't mean to be confusing. (Or disrespectful.)

My basic arguments:

1. I'm not convinced the joke is racist.

2. Even if it is racist he's guilty of the exact same things he's complaining about, so, you know, fuck him.

3. I think his blog post is merely him bragging that he got one over on a fat woman and a gay man.