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So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? cartesiandaemon September 17 2012, 11:48:46 UTC
I wonder what the guidelines should be? Currently it seems like we have an awkward double standard where things are tortuously defined as "in the public interest" or not, but everyone has an incentive to bend the law as far as possible in order to be able to print juicy pictures.

Should we accept that the pictures will be available online, and say that newspapers can write about a story, but have a stricter restriction on what can be published in "public" venues? That's somewhat unfair on newspapers, but might have the desired effect, in that "Prince Harry plays strip pool" is just about a human interest story, but "Telephotographer snaps the Duchess of Cambridge" isn't.

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? andrewducker September 17 2012, 11:57:57 UTC
I'm not sure that either of them is strictly in the public interest.

Now, in one case you could argue that the person taking the photo had tacit permission (unless they did it secretly), while the other clearly didn't.

But neither case has any "news" justification other than "Naked Famous People! Wahey!"

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? cartesiandaemon September 17 2012, 12:09:35 UTC
Oh, no, I think probably not[1]. What I mean is, I think it may be impractical or unwise or nonconstitutional to ban all non-public-interest stories. So I envisaged the newspaper could be at liberty to publish them even if they're not, but don't necessarily get to use the pictures.

[1] See digression in follow-up comment.

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? fjm September 17 2012, 12:45:47 UTC
I don't think this even has to be dealt with as a story/public interest issue.

Stalking someone in the UK is a crime.For a UK newspaper to print the photos is to collaborate with a stalker. And it's the stalking that distinguishes the two incidents.

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? cartesiandaemon September 17 2012, 13:04:45 UTC
I thought collaborating only counted if you helped prepare for or cover up the crime, is that wrong?

I guess you could say that if it's a crime, the photographer would be prohibited from profiting from the photos (that's probably a good idea, and I think there are laws against profiting from a crime?)

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? fjm September 17 2012, 13:20:36 UTC
receiving stolen goods is a crime even if you don't know they are stolen. I suspect you could catch it under that. And yes, profiting from crime.

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? cartesiandaemon September 17 2012, 13:26:18 UTC
But are pictures of prince harry's privvy parts "goods"? Doesn't that only apply if it's something physical that the person they're stolen from needs to get back?

And yes, profiting from crime.

Yeah, but that doesn't stop them from being printed, only stops newspapers paying for them. That might cut down the market, but once they've been taken, does anything stop the paper printing them? Can the photographer sue for damages if he wasn't allowed to sell them in the first place?

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? fjm September 17 2012, 13:31:46 UTC
fun questions that I'd love to have argued over in court, as opposing to obsessing about "public interest" which tends to come down to which citizens are more valuable.

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Re: So, why is it ok to print pictures of Prince Harry naked, but not Kate Middleton? danieldwilliam September 17 2012, 15:19:08 UTC
I’m not sure that receiving stolen goods is a crime if you don’t know they are stolen. It might be a crime if you have a reasonable apprehension that the goods are stolen but if you genuinly believe the goods to be not stolen you don’t have the mens rea of the crime. (I have a hazy memory of covering this in a criminal law lecture some 18 years ago.)

What doesn’t change is the property rights - if you receive stolen goods you don’t get good title for them, can never get or create good title to them and the true owner can raise an action of vidication of their property leaving you, the good faith receiver, with no goods and a potential claim in damages against the person who sold them to you.

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Digression cartesiandaemon September 17 2012, 13:01:33 UTC
I don't see anything relevant about the Harry story, but for someone nearly in line for the throne, I can imagine some cases where something normally private might matter, because if their judgement was sufficiently bad, people might want to object if they ever were next in line for the throne.

But even if you thought that test was relevant, it would only matter if the privacy laws were (I think) rather stricter than they are now.

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Re: Digression andrewducker September 17 2012, 13:05:37 UTC
I believe that the only method of objecting is to form an army and lead an uprising. Where's Cromwell when you need him?

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Re: Digression cartesiandaemon September 17 2012, 13:23:02 UTC
I think parliament (implicitly supported by popular sentiment) has had unofficial veto power over the succession for a while now[1]. There were a lot of armed revolutions in the process, but the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_1701 wasn't the direct result of a revolution? And I thought http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VIII was pushed as much as he jumped?

I think the monarch still theoretically has absolute power, but they'd probably abdicate if parliament pressures them enough. (Especially if the previous monarch is still around to assent.)

[1] Note to non-British. "For a while" means "three hundred years" :)

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Re: Digression matgb September 17 2012, 17:57:28 UTC
Nothing unofficial about it, the Act of Settlement changed the line of succession and made the monarchy elective-that it hasn't been changed since is only because we tend to do things by convention.

And it was the direct result of a revolution/invasion, it just took more'n a decade to get all the dust settled after 1688.

and yeah, The Crown has a huge amount of power, although it lost some more recently (Parliament now sits in its own right and choses the time of its dissolution whereas until last year Parliament was summoned and disolved by the monarch, for example), but most of the Crown powers are constrained by convention and similar.

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Re: Digression cartesiandaemon September 18 2012, 12:19:20 UTC
Andrew was the one who said we'd need a revolution, why not argue with him? :)

But FWIW:

And it was the direct result of a revolution/invasion, it just took more'n a decade to get all the dust settled after 1688.

OK, I agree it took a revolution, sorry for glossing that over. But having had that revolution, it's not clear we need another one to change the succession again, which was what some people seemed to think and what I wanted to rebut.

the Act of Settlement changed the line of succession and made the monarchy elective

I'm not sure I quite understand. Wikipedia says of his abdication "As soon as King Edward VIII gave his royal assent to this Act". That sounds like he theoretically had to assent to change the succession, even though, as I said, there was an iron-clad presumption that he would do so (partly because he wanted to abdicate, partly because the monarch probably can't rule against the wishes of parliament unless everyone else goes along with him).

Is that wrong?

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Re: Digression andrewducker September 18 2012, 12:23:13 UTC
Hey! No encouraging people to argue with me!

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Re: Digression cartesiandaemon September 18 2012, 12:24:37 UTC
LOL. I'll avoid it if I can, but if you don't want people to argue with you, you may have the wrong blog :)

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