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nancylebov January 27 2012, 11:40:29 UTC
It looks more likely that people who do overtime get depression rather than the other way around.

"Cars kill cities" chooses an annoying example. (Is there a term for that rhetorical trick?) Instead of mentioning important errands which involve moving a substantial amount of mass (buying food, taking babies and toddlers anywhere), the example repeatedly given is picking up dry cleaning.

In re the hidden epidemic-- damned if I know. Sometimes real problems (agent orange, fibromyalgia) get ignored.

I'm not a geek, but the programming video was still pretty funny, even if I probably missed some of the fine points.

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andrewducker January 27 2012, 11:47:42 UTC
Buying food doesn't have to be a substantial amount of mass if you do it every few days rather than once every two weeks.

And yes, it looks like people who do overtime get depressed later. No proof of causation, but burnout is far too common.

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nancylebov January 27 2012, 12:23:14 UTC
I would say that's true about food if you're not buying for more than two people, aren't generally buying beverages, and aren't buying from anywhere far enough away that you want to consolidate shopping trips.

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andrewducker January 27 2012, 12:29:01 UTC
I'd saythat if your city contains houses far enough away that you can't do a shop every couple of days then it's badly designed.

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laplor January 27 2012, 12:55:24 UTC
Agreed, and sadly, mine is badly designed in that very way.

My city deliberately uses a zoning system to ensure that residential, business, retail, and industrial areas all be as separate as possible. You cannot live near where you work, nor buy food near either your home nor your job.

Then they provide bus service between the zones only on the hour, and not before 7 am nor after malls close. They can't understand why the bus system is lightly used, so the keep withdrawing routes and runs.

Lately they've been on a kick to try to reduce car/pedestrian fatalities - a problem that better urban design would have greatly prevented!

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nancylebov January 27 2012, 12:59:21 UTC
I've got varied grocery shopping within half a mile, but if I want Whole Foods or Trader Joe's (and I generally do), I use a bicycle with large baskets, and (especially the Trader Joe's) is far enough away that I don't want to bike there (mass transit would take about as long on the average, I think, and it would be less convenient to carry things) every couple of days.

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andrewducker January 27 2012, 13:16:58 UTC
I'm lucky in that Edinburgh has tons of supermarkets - there are smaller versions of Tesco and the Co-op within a 5 minute walk of my office, and I live between a Sainsbury and a Morrisons. If I want to go to RealFoods then that's a bit further, I agree. But thankfully pretty much everyone delivers nowadays, so even for larger things I just need to book a slot.

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skreidle February 1 2012, 18:29:31 UTC
Most of the U.S. is badly designed in this way, due to commercial/residential zoning restrictions. You'll see miles of housing, then maybe some major roadways, then miles of shopping. Walking simply isn't an option. (In actual cities, or in "town centres" that are popping up here and there in the suburban areas, walking or biking can be more feasible.)

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naath January 27 2012, 12:25:19 UTC
I don't own a car; I buy food. Food buying does not required a car. Here are three ways I have handled food buying at various times in my life ( ... )

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kerrypolka January 27 2012, 12:42:26 UTC
I don't own a car; I buy food. Food buying does not required a car.

Yes, thank you!

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naath January 27 2012, 12:52:04 UTC
TBF if the nearest food shop to your house is 20 miles away, accessible only by a busy dual carriageway (on of the Tescos near Cambridge is essentially accessible only by using the A14 for instance) and no-one delivers food because "everyone has a car"... well, then it's a lot harder.

Also I assume that if you have a large family it is harder; but at the same time I would tend to assume that a large family contains more people who can go to the shop and carry things home from it.

(these days we are totes lazy and get that nice Mx Ocado to deliver our noms direct to our door; the main advantage of which is that I no longer buy a big bag of pasta when there are already two bags of pasta in the cupboard).

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andrewducker January 27 2012, 13:14:15 UTC
Rural living is completely different, yes. I have no disagreement with the idea that if you live in the middle of nowhere then you need a car :->

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hfnuala January 27 2012, 18:42:00 UTC
I have 2 kids (2 and 5) and no car and I do all my shopping and kid wrangling on foot with buggy and occasional bus use. Of course, I live in a medium density inner suburb of Edinburgh - school is 10 minutes 2 year old walk away, 5 minutes when she's in the buggy, there are 5 supermarkets walking distance away and several more a direct bus from here. Also walking distance are a library, cinema, park, high school, city farm and a canal. This area was mostly built in late Victorian times.

I couldn't imagine my life if I lived in a modern new build car centred suburb but I suspect I would have been hospitalised by now.

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undeadbydawn January 28 2012, 01:23:03 UTC
interesting.

people who drive tend to swear that things are very difficult without a car.
people who do not drive tend to point out that they manage those things perfectly well without a car.

I am of the latter camp.
as a career cyclist with one successfully raised child, I can assure you that those things can be done extremely easily without a car.

I'm also [as a student of both civil and mechanical engineering] horrified by the amount of space devoted to parking in the given example. Especially having designed car parks.

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