more 5.14
probably not much different from other reaction posts? I don't know. I rewatched this afternoon, with 90% less anxiety, and liked it better. It was still a bit too OTT in places for me, but then, this is Supernatural. Where OTT goes hand in hand with subtle, sometimes. They're like a May-December romance, really.
Running thoughts:
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN.
Okay, so, I don't see Dean's turning down Unattached Drifter Christmas as a choice to stay with Sam rather than go sow his wild oats. Instead, this is the first sign he's not going to be effected by Famine. As well as another sign of immense depression, given that Dean has in the past taken a lot of pleasure in at the very least flirting with the ladies.
People have mentioned that earlier in the season Dean was still showing signs of interest in things he enjoys, but I don't think that contradicts this episode -- that's depression, you know? It's progressive.
REMARKABLY PATRONIZING CONCERN, DULY NOTED.
For all its anvilly moments, this episode forwarded the themes of 5.11, showing some tangible results of Dean's depression instead of telling us about it. Instead of Sam announcing at the beginning that DEAN YOU'VE BEEN ACTING STRANGE (a la 5.11) we see it brewing more organically here, with first the disinterest in the ladies, then the disinterest in food, which are two major external things we know Dean likes, besides music, his car, and hunting. Better really worry if those three start to fall off, though I think I could argue that Dean hasn't gotten a hell of a lot of pleasure out of hunting for some time.
I handwave that Sam's sudden ability to hear/smell demons is because of the exaggerated/heightened power of Famine. Though the heartbeat effects were rather OTT, show.
As I was saying to dafnap and gabby_silang, I think half of my anxiety watching this the first time was due to the dissociation between the funny jokes and the fact that the characters, Dean in particular, weren't laughing. Dean is usually the go-to POV in the comedy eps (and Sam's often the straight man, "Bad Day at Black Rock" being an exception), so it was disorienting that Ackles was playing the opposite of comedy for much of the episode.
I kind of miss ambiguously threatening Castiel, though he is very funny in this episode.
I wonder if for Dean, Famine has the opposite effect on everyone else: he's *even less* hungry than he would be otherwise. So rather than having no effect, Famine is exacerbating Dean's existing depression.
IS THIS A FIGHT ARE WE IN A FIGHT?
YOU JUST PUNCHED A CUPID
I PUNCHED A DICK
Dean is remarkably consistent in his view of angels. Then again, most of them are dicks.
Sam: You do realize this is Dean you're asking to talk about his feelings, right? That usually goes so well. He either stomps away or tells you he was a torturer while in hell, and cries. There's no in between with the dude.
Okay, the music is kind of OTT in this one. Tone it down, guys, it's dramatic enough already. I think half of my problem with feeling this ep goes too OTT in places is due to the music alone. It feels like I'm being followed around by an orchestra while I watch, rather than seamlessly integrated into the show.
On a meta level, I love that War was a middle aged white guy executive type, the kind of guy you could see heading Blackwater, while Famine is a creepy old rich white guy with handlers. You can almost see them as the same person at different points in their life -- the guy who once made boardroom decisions that killed thousands aging into the guy who is never sated by devouring souls. And it makes sense that Famine can devour demons, as we were told that demons were once human souls.
I thought they were gonna be all Frodo and Sam and melt down War's ring? But Dean is carrying it around in his jacket?
Oh Sammy, you really are kind of horrifying when you're drinking demon blood.
YOU CAN'T WIN AND YOU KNOW IT, BUT YOU JUST KEEP FIGHTING, JUST KEEP GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS.
I think Dean's inaction in this scene is meant to underpin just how true this is. At the moment, he can't even keep fighting, he can only stand there as his brother uses his demon powers again, bringing back the horror of season 4. I'm thinking now that (amazingly enough) we still haven't seen Dean hit bottom yet, and when he does, that's gonna be scary. Because the guy who hit bottom and never bounced back is 2014 Dean. Who really is dead inside. Saying Yes to Michael is looking like the better option, and that's scary too.
Sam, you couldn't have wiped the blood off your chin before coming to save your brother? Dude, that is not a good look.
Famine handing over his demon minions as a snack for Sam echoes Lucifer's attitude toward the expendableness of demons early in the season. Gotta wonder how the demons are feeling about this.
Are we supposed to assume the boys took Famine's ring? Feels like there was a cut scene there.
I don't think Sam will come to a point where he's using his powers For Good on a regular basis -- for one, anyone remember the black eyes when he killed Lilith? Not a good sign. For two -- it's obviously not a healthy thing for him to be doing, given the pain and nosebleeds. But I don't want this plot thread to disappear completely, either, so I'll be interested to see what happens.
I like that Lucifer is possibly wooing Sam with the possibility of an endless supply of fresh demon blood, and therefore power. But the power presumably doesn't work on Lucifer, so it won't particularly help them defeat him.
The directing in the confrontation with Famine felt a bit off to me. I can't put my finger on why. Ackles seemed a little off his game, which is not something that happens often. But then, you know. The following scene just erases any quibbles I had.
There are echoes of so many other scenes in those moments: the end of 4.16 especially.
That there is a dude who doesn't believe anyone's coming to help him, ever, but can't do anything but ask anyway. All he's gotten from heaven is lies and manipulation and pain, but where else does he have to turn? His brother the detoxing demon blood junkie? The rapidly de-powering angel with a thing for hamburgers?
I'm beginning to think the real worry might not be Sam saying yes to Lucifer, but Dean saying yes to Michael.
Running thoughts:
UNLEASH THE KRAKEN.
Okay, so, I don't see Dean's turning down Unattached Drifter Christmas as a choice to stay with Sam rather than go sow his wild oats. Instead, this is the first sign he's not going to be effected by Famine. As well as another sign of immense depression, given that Dean has in the past taken a lot of pleasure in at the very least flirting with the ladies.
People have mentioned that earlier in the season Dean was still showing signs of interest in things he enjoys, but I don't think that contradicts this episode -- that's depression, you know? It's progressive.
REMARKABLY PATRONIZING CONCERN, DULY NOTED.
For all its anvilly moments, this episode forwarded the themes of 5.11, showing some tangible results of Dean's depression instead of telling us about it. Instead of Sam announcing at the beginning that DEAN YOU'VE BEEN ACTING STRANGE (a la 5.11) we see it brewing more organically here, with first the disinterest in the ladies, then the disinterest in food, which are two major external things we know Dean likes, besides music, his car, and hunting. Better really worry if those three start to fall off, though I think I could argue that Dean hasn't gotten a hell of a lot of pleasure out of hunting for some time.
I handwave that Sam's sudden ability to hear/smell demons is because of the exaggerated/heightened power of Famine. Though the heartbeat effects were rather OTT, show.
As I was saying to dafnap and gabby_silang, I think half of my anxiety watching this the first time was due to the dissociation between the funny jokes and the fact that the characters, Dean in particular, weren't laughing. Dean is usually the go-to POV in the comedy eps (and Sam's often the straight man, "Bad Day at Black Rock" being an exception), so it was disorienting that Ackles was playing the opposite of comedy for much of the episode.
I kind of miss ambiguously threatening Castiel, though he is very funny in this episode.
I wonder if for Dean, Famine has the opposite effect on everyone else: he's *even less* hungry than he would be otherwise. So rather than having no effect, Famine is exacerbating Dean's existing depression.
IS THIS A FIGHT ARE WE IN A FIGHT?
YOU JUST PUNCHED A CUPID
I PUNCHED A DICK
Dean is remarkably consistent in his view of angels. Then again, most of them are dicks.
Sam: You do realize this is Dean you're asking to talk about his feelings, right? That usually goes so well. He either stomps away or tells you he was a torturer while in hell, and cries. There's no in between with the dude.
Okay, the music is kind of OTT in this one. Tone it down, guys, it's dramatic enough already. I think half of my problem with feeling this ep goes too OTT in places is due to the music alone. It feels like I'm being followed around by an orchestra while I watch, rather than seamlessly integrated into the show.
On a meta level, I love that War was a middle aged white guy executive type, the kind of guy you could see heading Blackwater, while Famine is a creepy old rich white guy with handlers. You can almost see them as the same person at different points in their life -- the guy who once made boardroom decisions that killed thousands aging into the guy who is never sated by devouring souls. And it makes sense that Famine can devour demons, as we were told that demons were once human souls.
I thought they were gonna be all Frodo and Sam and melt down War's ring? But Dean is carrying it around in his jacket?
Oh Sammy, you really are kind of horrifying when you're drinking demon blood.
YOU CAN'T WIN AND YOU KNOW IT, BUT YOU JUST KEEP FIGHTING, JUST KEEP GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS.
I think Dean's inaction in this scene is meant to underpin just how true this is. At the moment, he can't even keep fighting, he can only stand there as his brother uses his demon powers again, bringing back the horror of season 4. I'm thinking now that (amazingly enough) we still haven't seen Dean hit bottom yet, and when he does, that's gonna be scary. Because the guy who hit bottom and never bounced back is 2014 Dean. Who really is dead inside. Saying Yes to Michael is looking like the better option, and that's scary too.
Sam, you couldn't have wiped the blood off your chin before coming to save your brother? Dude, that is not a good look.
Famine handing over his demon minions as a snack for Sam echoes Lucifer's attitude toward the expendableness of demons early in the season. Gotta wonder how the demons are feeling about this.
Are we supposed to assume the boys took Famine's ring? Feels like there was a cut scene there.
I don't think Sam will come to a point where he's using his powers For Good on a regular basis -- for one, anyone remember the black eyes when he killed Lilith? Not a good sign. For two -- it's obviously not a healthy thing for him to be doing, given the pain and nosebleeds. But I don't want this plot thread to disappear completely, either, so I'll be interested to see what happens.
I like that Lucifer is possibly wooing Sam with the possibility of an endless supply of fresh demon blood, and therefore power. But the power presumably doesn't work on Lucifer, so it won't particularly help them defeat him.
The directing in the confrontation with Famine felt a bit off to me. I can't put my finger on why. Ackles seemed a little off his game, which is not something that happens often. But then, you know. The following scene just erases any quibbles I had.
There are echoes of so many other scenes in those moments: the end of 4.16 especially.
That there is a dude who doesn't believe anyone's coming to help him, ever, but can't do anything but ask anyway. All he's gotten from heaven is lies and manipulation and pain, but where else does he have to turn? His brother the detoxing demon blood junkie? The rapidly de-powering angel with a thing for hamburgers?
I'm beginning to think the real worry might not be Sam saying yes to Lucifer, but Dean saying yes to Michael.