marvel movie fandom is srs bsns u guise
A response to this Tumblr entry:
Basically, I've been seeing quite a bit of Loki love on Tumbr. Which is absolutely wonderful, don't get me wrong. It's just that several people don't appear to realize that he is the god of lies. That most the puppy-facing and the "I'm doing this to prove my worth to my father" was an act.
I'll get to your first point last. For now, let's move on.
He's really not that nice of a guy. I think part of this might be stepping from the fact that a lot of Loki fans are also Tom Hiddleston fans, and Hiddleston is a terribly sweet man - which just goes to emphasize how brilliant of an actor he is, being able to portray a character so utterly different than who he is.
Okay, hands up everyone who knew about Hiddleston pre-Thor. Put your hands down, you are lying.
I'm reasonably certain the majority of Hiddleston fans were introduced to him by his portrayal of Loki. Which means they lacked a preconceived notion of who the actor was. Which means it would be impossible for any knowledge of the actor to color their perception of the character.
Short version: how did knowing Tom Hiddleston was a great guy ruin my interpretation of Loki without me knowing Tom Hiddleston was a great guy in the first place?
Riddle me that, please.
I don't mean to offend anyone by this, I just want to make sure that those people who have recently become Loki fans realize that they are, in fact, rooting for a person that was perfectly willing to destroy an entire realm of defenseless people without batting an eye.
Oh, you're doing this for our own good. Thank God for that, I was worried for a second there.
Thankfully, your worries are misplaced. I do, in fact, realize that I am "rooting for" a person who was perfectly willing to destroy an entire realm.
Nowhere have I said that Loki's actions were right. The thought process leading up to them is understandable, yes. But are the actions themselves right? Fuck no. Genocide is never right. Loki needs a stern talking-to at the very least.
But I do not believe his core character has been shown to be completely incapable of redemption. Everything Loki did was 1) to protect Asgard and 2) to win his father's approval. He desperately wants to do good! He just doesn't know how.
If there were to be a plot in which he realized his mistakes, repented, and attempted to make up for them (perhaps through a delicious redemption arc?), that would be totally awesome. And also completely plausible.
And now, back to your first point, which I will repeat in case anyone forgot over the last 500 words or so.
Basically, I've been seeing quite a bit of Loki love on Tumblr. Which is absolutely wonderful, don't get me wrong. It's just that several people don't appear to realize that he is the god of lies. That most the puppy-facing and the "I'm doing this to prove my worth to my father" was an act.
Bullshit.
- The only indication that Loki is doing anything "for the evulz" comes from another character's dialogue. Specifically, Sif says this
"He may speak of the good of Asgard, but he's always been jealous of Thor."
to the warriors three while they are discussing Loki.
The warriors three and Sif have known Loki and Thor for centuries, making Sif's statement a textbook example of the As You Know, Bob trope.
I refuse to believe that Kenneth fucking Branagh would use a trope so overplayed and lazy without subverting it.
And really, it works quite handily as a subversion. If Sif's statement is taken at face value, telling the audience something about Loki, it feels incredibly forced and falls flat. However, if it is meant to tell the audience something about Sif and the warriors three (namely, explaining Sif+3's own prejudices and why they choose Thor over Loki), it works like a charm.
Please do not take this as a slight against Sif. Being wrong in her judgment of Loki's character doesn't make her the bad guy, or the true villain of the piece, or evil, or cruel, or a bad character. Quite the contrary: heroes with the ability to be wrong about things are much stronger and more fun to watch than heroes who are always right.
- In the scene between Odin and Loki in the weapons vault, it has been argued that Loki was lying/acting in order to... win Odin's sympathy or something, the opposition hasn't exactly been clear. Let's pretend that's true for a moment and examine the scene more in-depth.
To recap: Thor has just been banished. Loki is in the weapons vault examining the Casket of Ancient Winters, which reveals his Jotun heritage for the second time in the film. Odin wanders up and Loki confronts him, demanding information on his own origins. Odin provides this information; Loki was a Jotun runt taken by Odin back to Asgard to serve as leverage in peacemaking. Loki, understandably, reacts poorly to the news and has a big fat Calling The Old Man Out moment. Odin retaliates by collapsing into the Odinsleep.
Does Loki drop his "act" of feeling betrayed and upset, now that he has accomplished his presumed goal of incapacitating Odin?
No.
He makes this face:
And keeps making it until he screams for the guards to come in and help him out.
There is no satisfied smirk, nor even a grim look of satisfaction. We go straight from "fucking devastated because I literally injured my father with my words" to "call the guards because I am still fucking devastated."
I would like to ask anyone who assumes Loki is lying about his motivations to tell me: in that moment, who was Loki lying to?
Loki may be a liar, yes, but he is not lying to the audience. He is not Deadpool, he does not break the fourth wall; to him, the audience does not exist. When he lies, he lies to other characters in the film. And in that devastated moment, there are no other characters around.
(There's Odin, yes, but he's in a freakin' coma. Lying to the comatose with your face is just stupid.)
Perhaps an amateur director would make the mistake of letting a character lie to the audience, or to no-one at all. But again, this is Kenneth fucking Branagh. He's Hamlet*, for fuck's sake, not a goddamn amateur.
- All this said, Loki is definitely a liar. He lies to Heimdall by omission and by deed. He manipulates Thor into disobeying Odin to prove, rightly so, that Thor at the beginning of the film would make a bad king. He lies to everyone in Asgard about his triple-cross plan to keep them safe. He lies to Thor when he tells him their father is dead and their mother wants him banished forever. (Remember, his goal at this point is "keep Thor away from Asgard, for Asgard's sake.") He lies quite directly to the Jotuns at least twice, once to get them into the weapons vault and again to get them to attack Odin so he can kill them.
And honestly? I believe he lies at the end, too, when he threatens to pay Jane and all of Midgard a "visit" with the full might of the Bifrost.
In that scene, Loki is losing it, destroying his biological family and all their culture, desperately seeking validation from his adoptive family. When he fails to get it and instead gets their disapproval, he lashes out.
Loki has a silver tongue. He knows when and where to strike and what to say to cause the most damage, regardless of whether or not he means it. That is what makes him the Liesmith.
Remember, at this point in the film, all Loki wants is for Thor to fight him. It's really not that much of a stretch to assume an utterly shattered Loki would say absolutely anything he could think of to hurt Thor the most, regardless of whether or not Loki meant it.
TUNE IN NEXT TIME for "Loki is really super evil at all times you guys, except not really, because if he were 100% evil the filmmakers would have made very different and far more effective choices in terms of acting, dialogue, and plot; possibly including the destructive use of the Bifrost on Midgard rather than an alien nation with no women or children, furthermore an alien nation that the audience has been told to think of as evil for the last two hours."
*You may also know him as Miguel from The Road to El Dorado, or Professor Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
Basically, I've been seeing quite a bit of Loki love on Tumbr. Which is absolutely wonderful, don't get me wrong. It's just that several people don't appear to realize that he is the god of lies. That most the puppy-facing and the "I'm doing this to prove my worth to my father" was an act.
I'll get to your first point last. For now, let's move on.
He's really not that nice of a guy. I think part of this might be stepping from the fact that a lot of Loki fans are also Tom Hiddleston fans, and Hiddleston is a terribly sweet man - which just goes to emphasize how brilliant of an actor he is, being able to portray a character so utterly different than who he is.
Okay, hands up everyone who knew about Hiddleston pre-Thor. Put your hands down, you are lying.
I'm reasonably certain the majority of Hiddleston fans were introduced to him by his portrayal of Loki. Which means they lacked a preconceived notion of who the actor was. Which means it would be impossible for any knowledge of the actor to color their perception of the character.
Short version: how did knowing Tom Hiddleston was a great guy ruin my interpretation of Loki without me knowing Tom Hiddleston was a great guy in the first place?
Riddle me that, please.
I don't mean to offend anyone by this, I just want to make sure that those people who have recently become Loki fans realize that they are, in fact, rooting for a person that was perfectly willing to destroy an entire realm of defenseless people without batting an eye.
Oh, you're doing this for our own good. Thank God for that, I was worried for a second there.
Thankfully, your worries are misplaced. I do, in fact, realize that I am "rooting for" a person who was perfectly willing to destroy an entire realm.
Nowhere have I said that Loki's actions were right. The thought process leading up to them is understandable, yes. But are the actions themselves right? Fuck no. Genocide is never right. Loki needs a stern talking-to at the very least.
But I do not believe his core character has been shown to be completely incapable of redemption. Everything Loki did was 1) to protect Asgard and 2) to win his father's approval. He desperately wants to do good! He just doesn't know how.
If there were to be a plot in which he realized his mistakes, repented, and attempted to make up for them (perhaps through a delicious redemption arc?), that would be totally awesome. And also completely plausible.
And now, back to your first point, which I will repeat in case anyone forgot over the last 500 words or so.
Basically, I've been seeing quite a bit of Loki love on Tumblr. Which is absolutely wonderful, don't get me wrong. It's just that several people don't appear to realize that he is the god of lies. That most the puppy-facing and the "I'm doing this to prove my worth to my father" was an act.
Bullshit.
- The only indication that Loki is doing anything "for the evulz" comes from another character's dialogue. Specifically, Sif says this
"He may speak of the good of Asgard, but he's always been jealous of Thor."
to the warriors three while they are discussing Loki.
The warriors three and Sif have known Loki and Thor for centuries, making Sif's statement a textbook example of the As You Know, Bob trope.
I refuse to believe that Kenneth fucking Branagh would use a trope so overplayed and lazy without subverting it.
And really, it works quite handily as a subversion. If Sif's statement is taken at face value, telling the audience something about Loki, it feels incredibly forced and falls flat. However, if it is meant to tell the audience something about Sif and the warriors three (namely, explaining Sif+3's own prejudices and why they choose Thor over Loki), it works like a charm.
Please do not take this as a slight against Sif. Being wrong in her judgment of Loki's character doesn't make her the bad guy, or the true villain of the piece, or evil, or cruel, or a bad character. Quite the contrary: heroes with the ability to be wrong about things are much stronger and more fun to watch than heroes who are always right.
- In the scene between Odin and Loki in the weapons vault, it has been argued that Loki was lying/acting in order to... win Odin's sympathy or something, the opposition hasn't exactly been clear. Let's pretend that's true for a moment and examine the scene more in-depth.
To recap: Thor has just been banished. Loki is in the weapons vault examining the Casket of Ancient Winters, which reveals his Jotun heritage for the second time in the film. Odin wanders up and Loki confronts him, demanding information on his own origins. Odin provides this information; Loki was a Jotun runt taken by Odin back to Asgard to serve as leverage in peacemaking. Loki, understandably, reacts poorly to the news and has a big fat Calling The Old Man Out moment. Odin retaliates by collapsing into the Odinsleep.
Does Loki drop his "act" of feeling betrayed and upset, now that he has accomplished his presumed goal of incapacitating Odin?
No.
He makes this face:
And keeps making it until he screams for the guards to come in and help him out.
There is no satisfied smirk, nor even a grim look of satisfaction. We go straight from "fucking devastated because I literally injured my father with my words" to "call the guards because I am still fucking devastated."
I would like to ask anyone who assumes Loki is lying about his motivations to tell me: in that moment, who was Loki lying to?
Loki may be a liar, yes, but he is not lying to the audience. He is not Deadpool, he does not break the fourth wall; to him, the audience does not exist. When he lies, he lies to other characters in the film. And in that devastated moment, there are no other characters around.
(There's Odin, yes, but he's in a freakin' coma. Lying to the comatose with your face is just stupid.)
Perhaps an amateur director would make the mistake of letting a character lie to the audience, or to no-one at all. But again, this is Kenneth fucking Branagh. He's Hamlet*, for fuck's sake, not a goddamn amateur.
- All this said, Loki is definitely a liar. He lies to Heimdall by omission and by deed. He manipulates Thor into disobeying Odin to prove, rightly so, that Thor at the beginning of the film would make a bad king. He lies to everyone in Asgard about his triple-cross plan to keep them safe. He lies to Thor when he tells him their father is dead and their mother wants him banished forever. (Remember, his goal at this point is "keep Thor away from Asgard, for Asgard's sake.") He lies quite directly to the Jotuns at least twice, once to get them into the weapons vault and again to get them to attack Odin so he can kill them.
And honestly? I believe he lies at the end, too, when he threatens to pay Jane and all of Midgard a "visit" with the full might of the Bifrost.
In that scene, Loki is losing it, destroying his biological family and all their culture, desperately seeking validation from his adoptive family. When he fails to get it and instead gets their disapproval, he lashes out.
Loki has a silver tongue. He knows when and where to strike and what to say to cause the most damage, regardless of whether or not he means it. That is what makes him the Liesmith.
Remember, at this point in the film, all Loki wants is for Thor to fight him. It's really not that much of a stretch to assume an utterly shattered Loki would say absolutely anything he could think of to hurt Thor the most, regardless of whether or not Loki meant it.
TUNE IN NEXT TIME for "Loki is really super evil at all times you guys, except not really, because if he were 100% evil the filmmakers would have made very different and far more effective choices in terms of acting, dialogue, and plot; possibly including the destructive use of the Bifrost on Midgard rather than an alien nation with no women or children, furthermore an alien nation that the audience has been told to think of as evil for the last two hours."
*You may also know him as Miguel from The Road to El Dorado, or Professor Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.