Re: doing good is certainly helpful
anonymous
June 7 2006, 13:50:31 UTC
Luke 12.29 "And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind."
Have you understood His gospel of happiness? Lord Jesus taught the gospel of happiness. The happiness of God created all life including the creatures of the earth. To take the life of innocent creatures unnecessarily is an offense against God's happiness.
The creatures of the earth are like children. They look to us with hope and we dash the hope that glistens in their innocent eyes. And not for shear survival, but due to ignorance and slavery to our tongue, belly and genitals.
Doesn't an owner love his pet, a cat or dog? He would fight for the health and life of their pet. Are not all beings belonging to God the true owner of all? What right do we have to harm his pets when there is ample food?
Are not the bodies of the earth's creatures just as complex as the human being? Can we claim that we can create even one bird? We cannot create a complex organism like this. Only the happiness and joy of God can create and maintain life.
If you do not learn in this human life, then there is no telling how long it will be before you get a human life with which to understand. Not correctly using our human intelligence we might get the body of an animal or even a plant.
How is claiming Lord Jesus is God while not studying his instructions, the way to eternal life?
Re: doing good is certainly helpful
anonymous
June 8 2006, 00:10:28 UTC
Merely claiming He is God won't get us to Heaven. One must believe in Jesus, accept His forgiveness, accept redemption, and invite Him to be head of their life. Once He indwells a person, the person then has the desire to do right. He convicts us of things we do wrong. For instance, when I invited Him into my life, the first thing He convicted me on was smoking. With His help, I put them down, and never looked back. He next convicted me on my use of birth control. If He is to have control of my life, He shoudl have control of every aspect, correct? I stand convicted daily on something, then I must repent, and strive never to repeat whatever action He showed me to be wrong. Slowly, I am becomming more like Him. I will never be good enough on my own to enter Heaven. It is only through His grace that I can attain eternal life.
The book of Genesis tells us God did not create animals to be His pets, He created them looking for a suitable helpmeet for Adam. Finding none, He created Eve, and gave Adam dominion over all animals. He gave them to Adam for food, for assistance in tending his fields (ox and plow, etc) and for clothing after Eve partook of the forbidden fruit and humanity realized its' nakedness. He did not give them free license to abuse animals, nor to kill them for sport. Many times in the Old Testament, animals and birds were used for sacrifices to God. If God endorsed this practice, then certainly He wasn't advocating the killing of His pets.
I am enjoying this conversation, I hope we can continue it. I am enjoying hearing your point of view.
Re: doing good is certainly helpful
anonymous
June 8 2006, 17:36:04 UTC
I believe the Bible to be the ultimate written authority. I believe God is present all around, and inside, us. I do not believe He gave animals souls, though certainly, He gave them some intelligence.
I don't understand what you mean by "bodily identification."
Re: doing good is certainly helpfulamanitvamJune 8 2006, 18:59:25 UTC
Is the Bible the ultimate written authority, or the only ultimate written authority? And how can you say that knowing how the Bible was written?
If you say the Bible was inspired by God, then how can God have only inspired those particular books of the Bible?
Life, consciousness, and intelligence are symptoms of a soul present. How can you deny this? What is your definition of a soul?
It is certainly convenient for the enjoyment of our temporary material body to think animals don't have a soul and so therefore we can kill them mercilessly for the satisfaction of our tongue, belly and genitals.
We can get plenty of food from the vegetable kingdom and if need be we can milk certain animals such as the cow.
Re: doing good is certainly helpful
anonymous
June 9 2006, 00:32:50 UTC
Never once have I said God does not love the animals, now have I? But He did not create them to be human's equals. He created them to provide food, clothing, and help.
If the Bible is not the only authority, what is? What other texts and manuscripts do you believe in? I sincerely desire to know where you're coming from. The only Scripture I have been exposed to is the KJV.
Yes, I respect life. So much so that I cringe at the thought of women taking birth control pills that cause early miscarriage without them even knowing. I seek to educate women about this abhorable practice.
I am also not one of those people who kills for sport. If I am in the woods with a rifle, you can be sure my family is starving, and not a morsel will be wasted. I agree with you that senseless slaughter is wrong. I believe it is permissible by God according to the Bible to use some animals for food. But I don't think He allowed for killing for sport. I believe if an animal is severely diseased and at risk of infecting the herd, it is ok to put it down. I believe if one of my animals ( I have dogs, cats, chickens, and goats) is severly injured and in unbearable pain with no hope of recovery, it would be wrong of me to force the animal to live.
Last week, my sisters cat was attacked by a neighbors dog. My sister ran to rescue her cat. The dog was shaking the cat. The dog did let go of the cat, now limp and near death, and paralyzed from a broken back, and turned on my sister. The dog clamped onto my sisters upper thigh with his teeth. She was rescued by my brother. Before I tell you how this story ended, tell me in your opinion what should be done for the cat? What should be done for the dog? Was my sister at fault for trying to rescue her cat?
Re: doing good is certainly helpfulamanitvamJune 9 2006, 00:59:35 UTC
Of course, animals are not our equals. But, they do have some rights. They are also citizens and our neighbors.
I'm talking about slaughtering animals for food or whatever else they use their bodies for. I am also referring to killing animals on the farm.
To Culling of the herd is a questionable issue. We should avoid killing if possible. It is a bad habit for human beings. Those who are in the business of killing such as the soldier, law enforcement, warrior, may get practice in the art of killing by "culling" animals in the wild. Animals in captivity may be a different story in regards to morals and ethics.
Cattle, for instance, can be kept from reproducing by castration. They can then be turned into oxen. The cow needs to have a calf about once a year in order to keep giving milk. Something needs to be done with the calf. If we are not overly dependant on milk products then there is less chance of too many calves.
Putting an animal "too sleep" in a humane and painless way may be desirable if it looks as though there is little hope for the animals survival. And if the animal is suffering.
Proper care should be taken for dogs so that they are not so hungry and agressive that they attack other pets or humans. If need be they should be put down.
I am just speaking on how to preserve ethics and morals in our treatment of animals. The more intelligent the animal the greater the possibility of bad karma if we harm that animal unnecessarily.
We can get leather and fur from animals that die of natural causes. Otherwise, there is much clothing that can be gotten from the vegetable kingdom.
There are many that have attempted to translate and interpret the Bible. There is much that has read "in between the lines" in regards to the Bible.
I was raised as a Roman Catholic. At the age of eighteen I ran away to join the Hare Krsna "Bhakti Yoga" Temple. I attempted to live with them as a celibate student for over five years. Ordinarily, a child goes to the temple school at the age of five to begin training as a celibate student. By maintaining celibacy in childhood it is easier for a child to control their sexual urges in their adult years.
If couples are sufficiently enlightened and self realized they will not need contraceptives. They will not need so much sex in marriage. They will be happy simply to have each other. This has to do with the "Gospel of Happiness" I mentioned earlier.
Have you understood His gospel of happiness? Lord Jesus taught the gospel of happiness. The happiness of God created all life including the creatures of the earth. To take the life of innocent creatures unnecessarily is an offense against God's happiness.
The creatures of the earth are like children. They look to us with hope and we dash the hope that glistens in their innocent eyes. And not for shear survival, but due to ignorance and slavery to our tongue, belly and genitals.
Doesn't an owner love his pet, a cat or dog? He would fight for the health and life of their pet. Are not all beings belonging to God the true owner of all? What right do we have to harm his pets when there is ample food?
Are not the bodies of the earth's creatures just as complex as the human being? Can we claim that we can create even one bird? We cannot create a complex organism like this. Only the happiness and joy of God can create and maintain life.
If you do not learn in this human life, then there is no telling how long it will be before you get a human life with which to understand. Not correctly using our human intelligence we might get the body of an animal or even a plant.
How is claiming Lord Jesus is God while not studying his instructions, the way to eternal life?
Reply
The book of Genesis tells us God did not create animals to be His pets, He created them looking for a suitable helpmeet for Adam. Finding none, He created Eve, and gave Adam dominion over all animals. He gave them to Adam for food, for assistance in tending his fields (ox and plow, etc) and for clothing after Eve partook of the forbidden fruit and humanity realized its' nakedness. He did not give them free license to abuse animals, nor to kill them for sport. Many times in the Old Testament, animals and birds were used for sacrifices to God. If God endorsed this practice, then certainly He wasn't advocating the killing of His pets.
I am enjoying this conversation, I hope we can continue it. I am enjoying hearing your point of view.
Reply
Are you sure your assumption is not based on bodily identification?
ys C dasa
Reply
I don't understand what you mean by "bodily identification."
Reply
If you say the Bible was inspired by God, then how can God have only inspired those particular books of the Bible?
Life, consciousness, and intelligence are symptoms of a soul present. How can you deny this? What is your definition of a soul?
It is certainly convenient for the enjoyment of our temporary material body to think animals don't have a soul and so therefore we can kill them mercilessly for the satisfaction of our tongue, belly and genitals.
We can get plenty of food from the vegetable kingdom and if need be we can milk certain animals such as the cow.
How can you say God does not love the animals?
Don't you respect life?
Reply
If the Bible is not the only authority, what is? What other texts and manuscripts do you believe in? I sincerely desire to know where you're coming from. The only Scripture I have been exposed to is the KJV.
Yes, I respect life. So much so that I cringe at the thought of women taking birth control pills that cause early miscarriage without them even knowing. I seek to educate women about this abhorable practice.
I am also not one of those people who kills for sport. If I am in the woods with a rifle, you can be sure my family is starving, and not a morsel will be wasted. I agree with you that senseless slaughter is wrong. I believe it is permissible by God according to the Bible to use some animals for food. But I don't think He allowed for killing for sport. I believe if an animal is severely diseased and at risk of infecting the herd, it is ok to put it down. I believe if one of my animals ( I have dogs, cats, chickens, and goats) is severly injured and in unbearable pain with no hope of recovery, it would be wrong of me to force the animal to live.
Last week, my sisters cat was attacked by a neighbors dog. My sister ran to rescue her cat. The dog was shaking the cat. The dog did let go of the cat, now limp and near death, and paralyzed from a broken back, and turned on my sister. The dog clamped onto my sisters upper thigh with his teeth. She was rescued by my brother. Before I tell you how this story ended, tell me in your opinion what should be done for the cat? What should be done for the dog? Was my sister at fault for trying to rescue her cat?
Reply
I'm talking about slaughtering animals for food or whatever else they use their bodies for. I am also referring to killing animals on the farm.
To Culling of the herd is a questionable issue. We should avoid killing if possible. It is a bad habit for human beings. Those who are in the business of killing such as the soldier, law enforcement, warrior, may get practice in the art of killing by "culling" animals in the wild. Animals in captivity may be a different story in regards to morals and ethics.
Cattle, for instance, can be kept from reproducing by castration. They can then be turned into oxen. The cow needs to have a calf about once a year in order to keep giving milk. Something needs to be done with the calf. If we are not overly dependant on milk products then there is less chance of too many calves.
Putting an animal "too sleep" in a humane and painless way may be desirable if it looks as though there is little hope for the animals survival. And if the animal is suffering.
Proper care should be taken for dogs so that they are not so hungry and agressive that they attack other pets or humans. If need be they should be put down.
I am just speaking on how to preserve ethics and morals in our treatment of animals. The more intelligent the animal the greater the possibility of bad karma if we harm that animal unnecessarily.
We can get leather and fur from animals that die of natural causes. Otherwise, there is much clothing that can be gotten from the vegetable kingdom.
There are many that have attempted to translate and interpret the Bible. There is much that has read "in between the lines" in regards to the Bible.
I was raised as a Roman Catholic. At the age of eighteen I ran away to join the Hare Krsna "Bhakti Yoga" Temple. I attempted to live with them as a celibate student for over five years. Ordinarily, a child goes to the temple school at the age of five to begin training as a celibate student. By maintaining celibacy in childhood it is easier for a child to control their sexual urges in their adult years.
If couples are sufficiently enlightened and self realized they will not need contraceptives. They will not need so much sex in marriage. They will be happy simply to have each other. This has to do with the "Gospel of Happiness" I mentioned earlier.
ys C dasa
Reply
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