A day late and a dollar short
So Thursday morning at work, I wrote up a response to the whole Bandom/Stage Gay thing. But then I never got a chance to post it due to life-stuff, and now it's 4 days late to the game, and I'm sure everything I have to say has already been said (though I don't actually know, since I've been totally out of the LJ loop since Weds.) And I'm certainly not going to post this as a comment in the original post (which had been my initial intent), since I doubt she wants to hear what I have to say at this point. But since I did take the time to write up my thoughts on all of it, I figured I should at least post it here.
I apologize in advance if this response a) forgets about/misrepresents things that are in the original post, or b) reiterates things that others have said in comments. As I said, this was all written when I wasn't in front of LJ.
First off, I want to say that I totally get where she's coming from with this. I really, really do. I too am a queer girl and often find myself acting less affectionate in public with women I'm actually dating than ones I'm not. It's a strange phenomenon. But ultimately, I think what the emo boys are doing is a good thing, and I think so for essentially two reasons:
1) I think someone else mentioned this in a comment, but basically I can't see how gay visibility (that's not treated as a bad thing) can be anything but ultimately good. Maybe it's only a stepping stone, and yes, we definitely have a long way to go, but if someone is out there showing that boys kissing is ok, then they are helping to create a whole generation of people that are ok with two boys kissing, and that's a very good thing. And if someone is out there making out with other boys because they think it will *gain* them fans, then my mind boggles as to how that could possibly be bad. I mean, yes, it would nice if real gay boys could do this, but this is a step along the way to that, and I truly believe we will get there. Perhaps this is an insensitive analogy, but the civil rights movement was ultimately won when a bunch of white guys in congress decided that maybe black people weren't so scary after all. And I don't mean to discount the efforts of black activists here, nor would I discount the efforts of queer activists. But the battle will only be won when we change the minds of the heterosexual masses, and we're not going to get anywhere if we don't acknowledge and/or utilize our straight allies. And there's no way you can tell me that someone who willingly makes out with other boys isn't an ally.
2) Putting aside the issue of G&L rights (i'm intentionally leaving out the B and the T, because I'm not putting them aside), there's an entire other stereotype that needs to be broken down in our society, which I think the emo boys are doing a very good job with... and that's the notion that men are not allowed to be effeminate, and if they are, they must be gay. So many people in the gay community go on about breaking down stereotypes about gay people and how not all gay men are the swishy stereotype. But you know what? Some men (gay and straight) *are* that stereotype, and there's nothing wrong with that. I have a fair number of straight male friends who are fairly effeminate or have some stereotypical gay traits, and you know what? They spent just as much (if not more) of their life getting beat up for being gay as many gay men. This whole idea that our society has that straight men are not allowed to be affectionate or touchy-feely, or hell, wear make-up or skirts, is just ridiculous, and if the emo boys are going to get up on stage or in interviews and say, "I'm a straight man, but I like hugging and wearing eyeliner" than I'm all for it. As a girl who is attracted to boys (and girls) who walk the androgyny line, I sure as hell wish more straight men would admit to that.
Also, I think sexuality is a lot more fluid than people in this discussion are allowing it to be, and than society allows it to be, and that's another thing we need to change and give more visibility. When Pete Wentz says that he likes making out with boys above the waist, but doesn't like penises, you know what? I believe him. Because I'm a girl who mostly considers herself more of a lesbian than bi, just because I don't like penises. I like making out with boys too, but more often than not I don't want anything to do with what's below the waist. So if I want to be able to make out with boys when I find a cute one, but mostly only have sex with girls, than Pete Wentz can do that too. Just because all of these emo boys have girlfriends does not automatically make them 100% straight and therefore "playing at being gay". And you know what, they're all pretty young too. Maybe in a couple years one of them will meet a boy they like enough to settle down with and will do so. Or maybe they won't. For some people, gender is not the primary factor in what they find attractive in someone. And I can't help but think that's probably true for a guy who has short hair, but wears eyeliner and women's jeans.
ETA: I've unlocked this post, because it occurs to me that a political call to action is useless when made in a private forum. And I think later, when I have time, I actually will comment this into the original post, because what's the point in saying things, if you're not going to contribute to the actual duscussion?
I apologize in advance if this response a) forgets about/misrepresents things that are in the original post, or b) reiterates things that others have said in comments. As I said, this was all written when I wasn't in front of LJ.
First off, I want to say that I totally get where she's coming from with this. I really, really do. I too am a queer girl and often find myself acting less affectionate in public with women I'm actually dating than ones I'm not. It's a strange phenomenon. But ultimately, I think what the emo boys are doing is a good thing, and I think so for essentially two reasons:
1) I think someone else mentioned this in a comment, but basically I can't see how gay visibility (that's not treated as a bad thing) can be anything but ultimately good. Maybe it's only a stepping stone, and yes, we definitely have a long way to go, but if someone is out there showing that boys kissing is ok, then they are helping to create a whole generation of people that are ok with two boys kissing, and that's a very good thing. And if someone is out there making out with other boys because they think it will *gain* them fans, then my mind boggles as to how that could possibly be bad. I mean, yes, it would nice if real gay boys could do this, but this is a step along the way to that, and I truly believe we will get there. Perhaps this is an insensitive analogy, but the civil rights movement was ultimately won when a bunch of white guys in congress decided that maybe black people weren't so scary after all. And I don't mean to discount the efforts of black activists here, nor would I discount the efforts of queer activists. But the battle will only be won when we change the minds of the heterosexual masses, and we're not going to get anywhere if we don't acknowledge and/or utilize our straight allies. And there's no way you can tell me that someone who willingly makes out with other boys isn't an ally.
2) Putting aside the issue of G&L rights (i'm intentionally leaving out the B and the T, because I'm not putting them aside), there's an entire other stereotype that needs to be broken down in our society, which I think the emo boys are doing a very good job with... and that's the notion that men are not allowed to be effeminate, and if they are, they must be gay. So many people in the gay community go on about breaking down stereotypes about gay people and how not all gay men are the swishy stereotype. But you know what? Some men (gay and straight) *are* that stereotype, and there's nothing wrong with that. I have a fair number of straight male friends who are fairly effeminate or have some stereotypical gay traits, and you know what? They spent just as much (if not more) of their life getting beat up for being gay as many gay men. This whole idea that our society has that straight men are not allowed to be affectionate or touchy-feely, or hell, wear make-up or skirts, is just ridiculous, and if the emo boys are going to get up on stage or in interviews and say, "I'm a straight man, but I like hugging and wearing eyeliner" than I'm all for it. As a girl who is attracted to boys (and girls) who walk the androgyny line, I sure as hell wish more straight men would admit to that.
Also, I think sexuality is a lot more fluid than people in this discussion are allowing it to be, and than society allows it to be, and that's another thing we need to change and give more visibility. When Pete Wentz says that he likes making out with boys above the waist, but doesn't like penises, you know what? I believe him. Because I'm a girl who mostly considers herself more of a lesbian than bi, just because I don't like penises. I like making out with boys too, but more often than not I don't want anything to do with what's below the waist. So if I want to be able to make out with boys when I find a cute one, but mostly only have sex with girls, than Pete Wentz can do that too. Just because all of these emo boys have girlfriends does not automatically make them 100% straight and therefore "playing at being gay". And you know what, they're all pretty young too. Maybe in a couple years one of them will meet a boy they like enough to settle down with and will do so. Or maybe they won't. For some people, gender is not the primary factor in what they find attractive in someone. And I can't help but think that's probably true for a guy who has short hair, but wears eyeliner and women's jeans.
ETA: I've unlocked this post, because it occurs to me that a political call to action is useless when made in a private forum. And I think later, when I have time, I actually will comment this into the original post, because what's the point in saying things, if you're not going to contribute to the actual duscussion?