Your country or your family

[almostwitty]

UPDATE: The proposals have actually been announced, and the minimum income starts at £18,600 - and rises to £22,400 if you have a child. Thereafter, it’s £2,400 for every additional child.

However, the probation time between getting further leave to stay in the UK and indefinite leave to remain in the UK has been expanded from two to five years. We

Comments

[maitressep]

I don't think immigration is a bad thing. I think paying dole and benefits to immigrants is a bad thing. Ergo, either having enough dosh up front, or earning a certain amount before you can start bringing family etc over is a good thing. Other countries have being doing this since forever, ask Australia! I'm glad we're catching up and becoming less of a soft touch at last.

There is no set figure for having a wife and 3 kids financially, so anything anybody says is guesswork, but it needs to be a substantial figure. 3 kids and a wife ain't cheap.

Apparently there will also be tests on spoken English. About time!

[almostwitty]

But then what do you say to a hypothetical couple - one American, one British on disabled benefits?

[maitressep]

If they're already here, they won't be affected. If they're not, then they won't be let in unless they can generate the required income. Seems reasonable to me!

[almostwitty]

Not necessarily true. It takes at least six years from arrival in the country before a non-EU citizen gets to the point when the Government can't expel them at any time.

And how would one generate the required income if you're a disabled person on benefits? (But then this gets into the whole benefits debate, where I imagine you and I would differ significantly)

[maitressep]

If you're a disabled person living on benefits, then don't move the the UK and expect the British taxpayer to fund you. Why on earth should we! They should either be funded by the spouse, or not expect a free ride on the gravy train.

My partner is an Aussie, he got his papers within weeks, as have several non-EU employees we have here at work.

[almostwitty]

That's the thing - as I understand these proposals, it's all about what the UK citizen earns. You could be dating a non-EU millionaire and that wouldn't matter... (although if you were, it'd be much easier to emigrate out of the UK)

Your partner's presumably using a Commonwealth visa or something. We had to apply for papers when she came over, when she got married, and we'll have to do it again in a couple of months. She had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to dance at the Olympics but couldn't do it because according to the UKG, her entitlement to stay here only lasts till October.

Bah.

[maitressep]

Nope, he has indefinite leave to stay, on his Aussie passport.

Not sure why somebody couldn't dance at the Olympics in July, if they're allowed here until October, that makes no sense. But I assume said lady is from a country where they allow any immigation, give dole and benefits to foreigners just for the asking, and whizz through immigration paperwork in a day or so yes?

If not, all Mrs May is doing is levelling the playing field.

[maitressep]

He's been here 20 years BTW, is married, 2 kids, and has never claimed any sort of benefits.

[almostwitty]

Not even child benefit? Or tax-free income?

[maitressep]

CB goes to his British ex, and no tax free income that I know of.

[janieluk]

I guess the first point is that immigrants generate far more economic benefit and tax revenue than they take out in benefits or increased public expenditure.

Leaving that aside, you're completely failing to appreciate the very real, traumatic, drawn-out experiences a lot of people who are from different countries go through in order to be together. Your lack of empathy and willingness to gloss over the impact of the proposals because you're alright Jack is both offensive and depressing, not mentioning the part where you call disability benefits a gravy train.

I don't want to turn our host's LJ into a battleground so I'll leave it there, but really, I'd ask you not to endorse something that can screw up lots of people's lives based on such a simplistic analysis.

[maitressep]

Just to clarify, I was referring to immigrants on benefits as a gravy train, not disability benefits.

I do appreciate that some people do have traumatic experiences. That, I empathise with. I don't empathise with people who come here, then fetch families over, and expect the taxpayer to foot the bill. I think it's entirely reasonable to expect people to support themselves if they wish to live here. After all, virtually every other country expects just that from immigrants.

[sioneva]

I'd like to see your stats on this "gravy train" issue. I think you'll find that you (and the Daily Fail) are starkly exaggerating the number of people on the "gravy train" of benefits who are immigrants. I didn't know any immigrants, whilst living in the UK, who weren't working. As an immigrant myself from the US, I certainly was - the UK got five years' worth of income tax out of me, only one and a half of which were post-naturalisation.

[maitressep]

Obviously, if you haven't met any, they can't exist. However that stats the OP provided a link to an official figure of 6.4% of immigrants on benefits. That doesn't include asylum seekers, which pushes the figure up considerably.

I think we're heading more towards a US style immigration package, which is a good thing.

[almostwitty]

It has to be pointed out that asylum seekers are dealt with in a separate manner to the conventional immigration routes, which makes sense. After all, it's hard to prove your income if you're literally on the run from an evil police state.

[sioneva]

So, I actually took the trouble to look up the report (rather than blindly quoting back a figure that says nothing about WHY those people are receiving benefits) and found that, under DWP regulations, the following people are eligible for benefits as immigrants