Occupy

[alloy_]

The Occupy movement are apparently angry. I’m not entirely sure why. After all they’re living rent free in a public space near you.

That’s your public space, paid for with your tax/rate Dollars/Euros/Pounds etc. In most cases they’re using the public facilities again provided by your hard earned dosh, or in the ultimate irony they’re abusing their

Comments

[ozma_katiebell]

Most of the people are out there, (myself included) ARE employed, they come out when they can. Many of the marches are scheduled when people get off work. There is also education going on, teaching people about how the government an economy works, something which is sadly lacking in our education system.

It certainly has its issues. The people who you seem to be indicating are having a party in the park are actually going through serious hardships to make their point. In many cases, they are being abused by the police. Instead of staying in the comfortable homes that many of them have, they are sleeping out in the elements, sometimes in not-so great parts of town, risking theft and assault. It has also attracted the homeless, the mentally ill, many who feel they have been forgotten by society, and for good reason. We closed our public mental health hospitals, and more often than not jail our mentally ill. Hospitals treat their symptoms and then literally dump them on the street. OWS actually has a medical tent, with doctors and nurses volunteering their time and service. They have fed hundreds of homeless people. Every day, each camp has a General Assembly to discuss what will be protested that day, and how. It is a as close to a democratic society as we have in this world. They have no core message, (other than protesting inequality) because they want EVERYBODY there to have a chance to have their message heard.

[alloy_]

None of which justifies a protest in Dunedin or even Auckland in a welfare state which costs ratepayers money damages public property and deprives the rest of society of their rights.

[ozma_katiebell]

I appreciate that, but not knowing what the economy is like in New Zealand and what issues they are protesting in particular, I can't comment on that situation. I do think that every society needs to regularly take a look at the extent that corporate influence has affected their dialogue, their political process and their economy, especially when you look back on history and see the damage the pursuit of 'profit at all cost' has caused humanity.

[alloy_]

By the same token the "pursuit of profit" has doubled our lifespans, and given us the ability to pursue a host of other issues beyond basic survival.

Capitalism works better than anything else we've tried.

That doesn't mean that capitalism needs to be unbridled or that capitalism always produces the desirable outcome.

Some desired outcomes like Public transport, health care, fire and police are better provided for by a collective with a non-profit motive, through taxation.

Some industries also need regulation to curtail their excesses.

[ozma_katiebell]

That doesn't mean that capitalism needs to be unbridled or that capitalism always produces the desirable outcome.

Exactly. What OWS is about is saying, okay, this is going too far. You've lobbied and maneuvered your way into changing the rules until you have all the cards, and we are hurting. We the people of the US have been taking our medicine for over two years now, while you the banks have been posting record profits and record salaries and gobbling up your competitors. Time for you to take your medicine too.

[alloy_]

I'm not sure occupy is achieving this.

From my perspective occupy seems to be irritating and depriving law abiding citizens of their civic amenities, at costing the occupied cities (and their ratepayers) hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[ozma_katiebell]

Yes, and over 4000 of them have been arrested for it, many of them through brute force. As opposed to the criminals they are protesting, who have caused billions of dollars in damage to not only the communities they operate from, but communities all over the country, and they are bring arrested by the...threes, I think?

[alloy_]

I've never suggested that the police action is without criticism.

However given how Occupy eschews corporate identity and responsibility, actions against individuals are inevitable.

[alloy_]

Ozma,

What you are describing is no longer a protest, it's now an informal NGO provisioning services to the community, be it food, or education or heath care.

It's now the equivalent of the SPCA (or any other charity) pitching tents in the park to service their particular cause.

At this point a sensible course of action would be for the protestors to demand serviced premises from which to continue their work.

Most cities would be able to provide that, probably in areas where it would do the most good.

Then you could stop riding roughshod over the rights of other citizens.

[ozma_katiebell]

If it is, it is serving the needs of that community, as I pointed out, people are getting desperately needed medical care as a result of the protest. One of the unexpected consequences of this is that it has brought light to the issues of inner city homeless and mentally ill. The thing is, these are neighborhoods that most of the protesters would normally avoid. This is the sort of experience that will affect these young people, who are taking part in activism for perhaps the first time in their lives, will carry with them. It will breed a generation of people who give a damn, and are not going to sit around and wait for their elected officials to act, and I think that the benefits to the country as a result will be seen for generations.

DUring the Great Depression it took a protest very similar to this (The Bonus Army) and the government's gross mishandling of the protest and the subsequent public outrage to bring in political change which finally resulted in the New Deal.

I always suspected that the nature of the movement would have to evolve eventually, and that it would have growing pains. I don't know how it will turn out, I imagined that it would eventually move into storefronts and political action.

The reason I am so excited by it is that our dialogue as a country has changed. The man behind the curtain has been exposed, and I had almost given up hope that it was possible.

[alloy_]

One hopes that Occupy can then stop tramping over other peoples rights.