Classism and Realism

May 21, 2008 00:03

There's some metafandom-ed posts about Supernatural and class, and at least one flocked post on my flist thinking about it in the abstract, and it's gotten me to revisit my thoughts, because class really does color the way I view fictional characters quite deeply. Well, maybe not class per se, since I've said things like that in the past and been ( Read more... )

classism, supernatural, meta, feminism

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this may be unpopular but.... hafren May 27 2008, 08:24:24 UTC
It seems acceptable to say "I'm not interested in watching a show about working-class characters" in a way it would never be to say "I'm not interested in watching a show about women" or "I'm not interested in watching a show about characters of color."

I think all three are acceptable. Bizarre, perhaps, and limiting one's potential enjoyment, but perfectly acceptable. What is not acceptable is RL prejudice against those groups - saying you don't want to work with them or send your kids to school with them. But personal preferences in entertainment are something else. I freely admit to being less interested in female characters than in male ones, partly because I am a woman and know how they work already, partly because as a straight woman I can't fantasise about them. Many of my students won't read books or watch TV shows about old people, whom they find boring. They'll change, as time catches up with them, but right now their preference is understandable and their own affair.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... dv8nation May 27 2008, 12:40:17 UTC
I think you have a point here. Isn't "I don't really relate to the characters" really the biggest factor here?

I'm middle class and from the 'burbs. So the trails of blue collar life don't really ring true with me. But I don't think that my not watching "The King of Queens" makes me a snob. I think it makes me someone who can look at a show and go "I don't think this one is for me."

Also, what would really be the solution here? People watch a lot of TV shows that they don't want to and don't like just to be PC? Also, if minorities don't watch shows with white people in them aren't they guilty of the same thing? What about poor people who don't watch shows about well off folks? Is not liking the rich because they're rich in some way better than not liking the poor because they're poor?

Lastly, isn't the most important thing in ALL of TV the question of if the show is actually any good to start with?

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... executrix May 27 2008, 12:50:12 UTC
Looking at it from the other way 'round, someone who says, YES, I want to watch shows about women! I want to watch shows about working-class people! won't exactly be spoiled for choice.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... dv8nation May 27 2008, 13:04:28 UTC
Do you mean shows where the characters happen to *be* working class/women or shows that are ABOUT being working class or being female?

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... executrix May 27 2008, 13:19:58 UTC
Either one.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... dv8nation May 28 2008, 11:07:47 UTC
Well, about half the characters on TV are female. So there ya go.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... executrix May 28 2008, 12:13:40 UTC
TV isn't quite as gender-unbalanced as the US Senate, but there are a lot more male than female characters, and male characters get a lot more lines.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... dv8nation May 28 2008, 12:23:08 UTC
You're comparing TV to the Senate? Apples and oranges.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... alixtii May 28 2008, 13:37:24 UTC
Her overall point still stands, I think.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... alixtii May 28 2008, 13:35:44 UTC
I'm not even sure that much is true.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... dv8nation May 28 2008, 19:15:16 UTC
Maybe. Maybe not.

I suppose a 50/50 split across the board is unrealistic. I can think of a fair number of shows with an odd number of main characters, after all.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... elfwreck May 29 2008, 00:38:00 UTC
I think about half the bodies you see on TV are female. I don't believe the number of named characters with speaking parts comes anywhere near equality between the sexes.

It's an interesting question; it'd take charts and graphs to find out.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... alixtii May 29 2008, 01:53:07 UTC
I think about half the bodies you see on TV are female

I'm still not sure about that much even. I'll have to think about it. (Excuse to watch TV!)

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... elfwreck May 27 2008, 17:35:08 UTC
I don't know "King of Queens"--but I do know that a lot of TV about "blue collar life" (or whatever's below that; a blue collar job is a step or two up from where most of my friends are) is hideously inaccurate.

In "Dharma and Greg," Dharma and her family & friends are supposed to be outcast hippie-freaks in SF. Setting aside the notion of several outcast hippie-freaks having their own nifty apartments in neighborhoods where Greg's family isn't terrified to visit... none of them seem to be employed at supermarkets or record stores (or three different shops); none of them are wearing oversized, ugly secondhand clothes when they're just hanging around the house; their kitchen appliances all work... I thought there must be some kind of trust fund involved.

*tries to think of other "working class" tv shows; I don't watch much network tv*

Hell, what are the "working class" shows?

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... dv8nation May 27 2008, 17:52:03 UTC
You've hit a good point there. That being that TV is not supposed to be reflective of real life. Sitcoms are *exaggerated* versions of the lives most people lead. That's why they're funny. And why people on them can live in huge pads that they could never afford in real life.

As for "blue collar" shows, well, I just take that as meaning shows where the characters don't have much money. But, honestly, that's a pretty shallow way of looking at it. Since not having much money or having a traditionally blue collar job doesn't mean that the person acts in ways typically connected to the blue collar lifestyle.

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Re: this may be unpopular but.... elfwreck May 27 2008, 18:17:08 UTC
They're supposed to be exaggerated, but not fantastic. Often, the upper class details are skewed, and the lower class ones are so blatantly wrong it's obvious that either the writer or the producer (who changes details to match his preferences) has never known anyone who lived on less than $80k/year.

"Married With Children"... another fine example, even setting aside the size of the house (maybe there's a housing code issue with the place, and the landlord knows that if he kicks them out, he'll have to fix it before he can rent it again), of writing that has no idea how a family can survive on a single salesman's income.

not having much money or having a traditionally blue collar job doesn't mean that the person acts in ways typically connected to the blue collar lifestyle.

I dunno about that. Poverty shapes people's lives in ways that are frighteningly consistent. And while TV, especially sitcoms, are going to show a distorted, mocking view of that (and I don't have a problem with that), it'd be nice if I got the idea that ( ... )

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