Classism and Working-Class Characters in Fandom

[alixtii]

This post by kattahj made me think about the intersection of racism and classism in deciding who gets written in fanfiction. Now, of course I think it is silly to say that "it is really just about class" or "it's really just about race"; the two work intersectionally in complicated ways. But if we agree with kattahj that CoC's are more likely to get written if

Comments

[nwhepcat]

Interesting. The characters I write far more than any others are Faith and Xander, and I think a lot of their appeal has to do with their class background. I grew up working class (neighboring poor) and in some ways the problems of the very privileged played out in fiction make me think boo fuckin hoo. I have a little bit of a chip, I'm sure

[alixtii]

I grew up working class (neighboring poor) and in some ways the problems of the very privileged played out in fiction make me think boo fuckin hoo. I have a little bit of a chip, I'm sure.

That's the other thing I'm unsure of--the class dynamics in fandom among the actual fen (as opposed to the characters) has the potential to be radically different from the racial dynamics. Obviously this being the internet, which often isn't free, and fandom, which is grounded in obsession towards media sources, serves to create a certain homogeneity which wouldn't be found racially (other than where racial distinctions parallel class distinctions), but I think that can be overstated. But in any case one doesn't see the sort of polarization that is constantly going on in discussions of race--but that may just be because there aren't as many discussions of class actually going on.

I wonder if characters of color who are working class get so little written about them because caucasian fans are hesitant about getting them "wrong."I think that's

[stormwreath]

Interesting ideas! As far as your main point goes, I suspect that there's a heirarchy of differences in play: a white, middle-class writer would be presumably reluctant writing a black character, and reluctant writing a working-class character, and therefore doubly reluctant to write someone who's both. The next part of your analysis could be whether black middle-class characters (Season 5 Gunn, Dr Foreman, Martha Jones, etc) get written about the same, more, or less than the white working class ones you've looked at here...

A few minor points:

Buffy's ability to quote Sartre and Arthur Miller seemingly without effort disqualifies her from being working-class.
The 'working class intellectual' is itself an established stereotype, at least in Britain... traditionally such people would be pillars of the Labour movement, or in modern times avant-garde artists or similar. Buffy doesn't really fit eith of those categories, though (quite apart from all her other markers of being upper-middle-class).

Nonwhite racial cultures are (almost?)

[alixtii]

The 'working class intellectual' is itself an established stereotype, at least in Britain...

I can think of British media which reflects this, but I don't think American culture really has the equivalent. Other people might disagree with me, of course.

Nonwhite racial cultures are (almost?) automatically coded as working-class

I think this is more an American thing...

I think that's fair, at least to a point.

Hmm. I'd say he's firmly coded as skilled working classI'd agree that, in terms of occupation, he's still solidly working class. But by most of the other social markers, he isn't. I was mostly thinking of the way he might come off to a stranger outside of work, plus of course his home and circle of friends. (And Sunnydale is coded upper-middle class in general, but with the caveat that many of people can probably only affect the upper-middle-class lifestyle they adopt because the property values are so low, so sociological and economic class are already radically divorced

[heyiya]

I'll comment more to the main post, but (having just reread our conversation from last time and hey, I said some fairly smart stuff!) just wanted to add that the working-class intellectual as stereotype really gets to the heart of what I was saying. As you're accounting for class, it's an impossible position, no? And I think the availability of that position pretty much epitomizes the difference between what we're calling UK and US discourses of class. The working-class intellectual (which is a positionality made available historically by the period in which higher education was free and subsidized in the UK, as well as by cultures that valued autodidacticism) and also the genteel poor, which -- hmm -- is pretty much Giles when he's unemployed

[peasant_]

The working-class intellectual (which is a positionality made available historically by the period in which higher education was free and subsidized in the UK, as well as by cultures that valued autodidacticism) and also the genteel poor,

Yes, in the British class system intellectuals can be found at every level (and have been for well over a hundred years - think of Jude the Obscure for a nice example). However, I think that statement should not be allowed to distract from the weighting of intellectualism which is heavily biased towards the upper middle class. So that, when stereotyping, intellectualism will still be read as a middle class trait in the absence of other markers.

Not that there ever is an absence of other markers for Brits...

[executrix]

I'd say that both Gunn and Faith are underclass rather than working class, and in a sense Gunn sells his soul a second time precisely to become upper-middle-class. I mean, Xander's initial working-classness is expressed by having to be on a construction site every morning. Faith didn't work the graveyard shift in a factory, f'rex.

nwhepcat: it says a lot about USian culture that the model for Bayliss was more upset about his fictional character being bisexual than the model for Gee was upset about his fictional character being assassinated! (Although it's possible that you don't consider the movie to be canon.)

[nwhepcat]

I hadn't done any reading about Gary D'Addario's reaction to the movie, and the info I got on RL Bayliss was from a book that came out during the 6th or 7th season. But I assumed GD'A was fine with his portrayal since he appeared in the series and the film.

I think of Xander as being firmly working class, even when he was in high school, because that's his family background (as far as I'm concerned).

[nwhepcat]

(And it does say a lot about something that RL Bayliss was worked up: I suspect as much about cop culture as US culture.)

[marinarusalka]

I'd say that both Gunn and Faith are underclass rather than working class,

True, and the same could be said of the Winchesters -- they live outside of society, and therefore outside of society's class system.

Though it's worth noting that the Winchester family appeared to be pretty solidly middle-class before the YED killed Mary and John fell into his obsession.

comment of great density the first.

[heyiya]

Okay, unsurprisingly I have tons to say here

Re: comment of great density the first.

[peasant_]

I'm not sure that classism is analogous to racism and sexism
I think the most important difference has to be that people can change their class, and successful social systems are dependent on class mobility to some extent so they will always incorporate the possibility in some manner. By contrast, the more intentional and oppressive forms of racial and gender prejudice are not only dependent on the immutability of race and gender at the individual level but actively incorporate methods of preventing any blurring of the boundaries. Any analysis that ignores that distinction would strike me as flawed.

(Also hi, nice to cross paths with you again :o)

Re: comment of great density the first.

[heyiya]

Hi! :)

I was thinking about our last conversation when I was writing all these comments... We seem to come to similar conclusions via totally different routes and politics, it's interesting!

(Although I still don't think changing class is as easy as all that -- or rather, you can definitely change class (I have, effectively) but you can never leave your class behind.

Re: comment of great density the first.

[peasant_]

We seem to come to similar conclusions via totally different routes and politics, it's interesting!

Well as a geographer I would suggest that our nationality has a huge influence on our interpretations, even though we have used different disciplinary tools to reach our conclusions.

Although I still don't think changing class is as easy as all that -- or rather, you can definitely change class (I have, effectively) but you can never leave your class behind.

I thoroughly agree. Changing class completely takes at least two generations, and even then there will still be signs.

comment of great density the second.

[heyiya]

The next thing is that I feel like your definition of 'working class' and 'middle class' and mine are really different. And I think this is a very American-vs-British thing, and also a feature of our differing class-status-of-origin. Let me put it this way: if I were American, I would probably describe myself as middle class. I'm not, and I don't; if I did, I suspect my class analysis would probably look fairly different (the famed complexities of the British class system are extremely different depending on the position within it that you're socialized into). I don't think Xander is solidly middle-class by the end of Buffy, for example; carpentry is a working-class occupation, and he may be have employees but he still doesn't have the cultural capital to be comfortable in a middle-class milieu. But he seems to grew up in the same social milieu as Willow, Buffy and Cordy, which complicates his family's class status to me from the start. (Then again, I grew up in a city where class status was very much defined by which neighbourhood

Re: comment of great density the second.

[heyiya]

Just to clarify: when I say class maps onto ethnicity, I mean that one's class identity is understood in a similar way to an ethnic identity, not that particular ethnic groups are classed in a particular way. I mean it in the opposite way to the way I talk about race mapping onto class in the US below! *headdesk*

Defining middle class

[elfwreck]

I grew up thinking of "working class" as paid-by-the-hour, and "middle class" as being salaried. ("Upper class" is either able to live off non-work-related income like dividends, or has a really big salary, and various status bits to go with that.)

Now, we have a new divide among working class: Hourly-with-benefits vs. "temp/part-time worker," which can extend for years, no benefits, no job security, next step up is not a raise or promotion but a guarantee of hours.

That's not a complete description, but it goes a long way towards a general overview.