Mockingjay: the end

[alexandral]

"Hunger Games" is a big disappointment of 2011, something I expected to like following almost universal praise this series receive in Lj land.. This disappointment goes quite deep covering many different levels and I feel compelled to write this down while I remember, even though I am probably re-capping some of the things I said previously:

Comments

[lydzi]

Lol YOU DID predict everything!! You have no idea how my face looked liked when I read your first topic on the subject ^^. I was "ok we have Nostradamus here" (now you need to put your Sherlock brain onto Games of Thrones asap :p).

Anyway, I knew everything you disliked from book 2 was going to worsen while reading book 3. And I can't really come with anything substantial with everything you just said. Basically you are very right on all this. I still enjoyed the books nonetheless. I was expecting a lot less while reading it and tbh, once I got past the *eyerollingthisissobattleroyale* I was fine. I think the biggest thing is.... I got attached to the characters. That's all that took. I loved Katniss despite her flaws (and let's face it, they deepen and deepen through the books). I adored Peeta. I was ready to believe in Gale. I smiled when Prim was there etc.

It's not deep literature, but I felt the adrenaline while reading it and I liked the road the author took. I loved the breakdown scenes. I don't think Prim's death was necessary though. And, my biggest grief (now I can say it to you ^^) is the memory loss of Peeta. I bloody hate that kind of storyline/plot. I suspect the k-dramas have spoiled that "temporary losing my memory sorry" thing forever to me. It's way too easy.
I only let it go because it was Peeta tbh. But I still cringe. You use that when you don't know what to do anymore (or that's how I see it).

[alexandral]

Lol, I don't really HATE the series, 6/10 is a pretty decent rating. :D

I think for me the problem was that I have seen quite few "OMPH! Katniss! The most feminist girl character ever written" posts , so I expected something more. And where I might believe that after reading Twilight , "Hunger Games" might seem like a slight step in feminist direction, this doesn't work for me. I AM NOT IMPRESSED. :D

I don't know if I express myself correctly: I don't dislike Katniss as a character. I feel for her. but I do dislike the things that this character signifies: another dose of tropes about young girls.

Oh, don't start me on Prim's death. This was so unnecessary but the worst thing? It was another character death/torture (the same was with Peeta's brainwashing) that was there for the single purpose to give Katniss reason to suffer . OH POOR SUFFERING KATNISS.
Oh wait, there was another purpose! Prim's death was there to get rid of Gale! And how badly executed that was!

[lydzi]

Lol Gale ending up somewhere on District 2 was so random but I have this perfect story where Joanna goes there sometimes and they hook up somehow. Gale and Joanna are a good match in my mind.

Katniss was delusionnal from the start about Peeta so the question about who she was going to end up with was never really worrying to me. I believe that if she really had the choice, she would have choose neither.

I really liked the epilogue. How everything is just said in little touches like a Turner painting. It seems all blurry but you can perfectly feel the emotions. Peeta being an anchor except those days where he probably freaks out and wants to kill his wife. The kids and the fear. The political changes tedious but there. And the heroin alive and feeling many things but also conscious that the better part of her was her little sister (because that's all very symbolic in the end and as you pointed out it was only a device for making the ultimate blow to Katniss) and that it died somewhere in the Capitol.

It felt sad, it felt real. It spoke to me at least.

[alexandral]

You see, I would have loved it if Katniss chose neither Peeta or Gale at the end. Because the way I see it -she didn't LOVE neither of the two and THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A REALLY FEMINIST ENDING. A girl doesn't need a man in her life "for survival purposes only"! I am a strong believer that you must marry for love only (another of my big problems with Hunger Games)

I thought at some point in the first book that she loved Peeta, but the way Katniss acted after he was brainwashed? NO, she didn't love Peeta. Marriage is not just for good times, it is also for bad times - what is going to happen when Peeta will get old or ill? I just can't see Katniss to be able to care for him.

This all said, the epilogue was quite good. If only the author hadn't written Mockingjay but went straight from "Hunger Gzmes" to the epilogue? I would have like this much better. :D

[geeklee]

I hope you don't mind if I jump in -

I knew you would be disappointed but I was curious to hear your take on her complete meltdown after she kills Coin..

I agree with you and lydzi completely. It would have been fun to have her stay on her own. But her marrying peeta was meant to show that she was growing and no longer keeping people from getting close. I still didn't like it though. I can't really explain why the things Collins does to show katniss' development just feel so wrong when they kinda make sense.

After many debates with others who have read the trilogy, I think what it boils down to is katniss appeals to the same girls who find Bella swan appealing. There are so many girls who feel lost and worry about not being enough that having katniss be strong as well as fall apart is something they want to see in their heroine. Of course that's only my opinion and I might be wrong but... :)

I also agree that katniss never chose peseta but fell into a rhythm with him, which is fine. So many people do that and quite frankly, I don't think katniss can really love anyone but prim (and hopefully her children). I think you hit it right on the head about her reaction to peeta's hijacking. She's too damaged and traumatized by her childhood and then the games to feel even the simplest form of love for peeta. But she does appreciate him always being in her corner.

I do believe that prim had to die though. That was obvious the minute her name was reaped, IMO.

[alexandral]

YAY!

Yes see, with Peeta - I really didn't see any signs of Katniss loving Peeta (or Gale). At the best , she tolerated both. As you say, this was really highlighted after Peeta's brainwashing when Katniss seemed to be angry at Peeta for the fact that he was not himself (as if this was anyhow his fault). I could buy it as "Katniss doesn't know how to show her feelings" if she didn't act completely differently with the person she loved, Prim. You mention this - compare the feelings Katniss showed for her sister and the feelings she showed for Peeta or Gale?

So for me, Katniss "settling" with the person she didn't particular love (Peeta) was quite a big let-down. Actually the concept of "settling" is one of the things that I find to be something I dislike, mostly because this de-values the "other person". And also because for so many years women were encouraged to settle, to enter marriages because "marriage and family is the happiness for women". And well, I am glad they don't have to anymore!

I was her mother, I would have advised her to stay single..

After many debates with others who have read the trilogy, I think what it boils down to is katniss appeals to the same girls who find Bella swan appealing. There are so many girls who feel lost and worry about not being enough that having katniss be strong as well as fall apart is something they want to see in their heroine. Of course that's only my opinion and I might be wrong but... :)

Actually I thought absolutely the same!!! YES YES YES. I think this is probably one of the really positive things about the series - the fact that you can conclude from the story that "It is fine to fall apart. It is fine to do this. " Only I don't think I particular enjoy another story with another female falling apart..

[geeklee]

So for me, Katniss "settling" with the person she didn't particular love (Peeta) was quite a big let-down. Actually the concept of "settling" is one of the things that I find to be something I dislike, mostly because this de-values the "other person".

I agree it de-values both but I'm not sure Peeta could have been happy with anyone else. While he was able to see Katniss more clearly after his hijacking, we're never shown him moving away from her. I don't think he ever did and his long-time feelings for her never really wane. I'm sure that's what keeps him from actually killing her which he never really does despite being so amazingly strong.

But then again we're not shown much about anyone's growth or development other than Katniss which is one the biggest things I didn't like. I'm just not that self focused. But so many really love the intense spotlight on just Katniss. *shrugs*

[alexandral]

I think everyone moves on eventually, and Peeta would have moved on eventually, but only if Katniss let him. This is one of the things I disliked the most in her character : she didn't love Peeta nor Gale, but kept holding onto both of them without clearly telling them "NO".

But the marriage is not just about Peeta, it is about Katniss and I honestly believe that entering into a marriage without feelings of love is wrong. What if Katniss falls in love somewhere down the road (with someone else)? What if Peeta gets really sick - how will she find strength to look after him (it is hard enough to look after the person you love)? Collins painted a rosy picture with the epilogue, but in my head - I need to know more about Peeta and Katniss. How did she manage to be able to cope with the marriage without feelings of love? How did Peeta managed to cope? How did he not get tired with the fact that it is always him who gives? I need the answers to all those "adult" questions!

The way I see it - may be some readers identify with Katniss. I did identify with her a little, at first, but lost it later on.. But I think if one is able to identify with her character everything looks differently? I get this sometimes: if I develop a strong emotional connection with a character I don't think rationally anymore and everything becomes GREAT, even things other people point at as problems don't matter to me because I feel it personally. When this happens, I usually start to take everything personally and feel really upset/angry if someone criticises my favourite, which I notice some of the fans of Katniss tend to do as well..

But so far , the way I see it - it is at least 60;40 : the majority of readers don't like the third book, and for the same reasons.

[geeklee]

Yes I believe you either really identify with Katniss personally or you don't. I am a big fan of "Jeff reads" and he adores Mockinjay and mentioned his own bout of PTSD and suicidal thoughts. Another friend told me she was emotionally slow like Katniss. It would seem you are spot on.

Btw, how have you arrived at the 60/40 numer? Just curious :)

[alexandral]

Yes, and totally get the identifying part. What I don't get, however, is that many of Katniss' fans make her into some paragon of feminism. Guys, I respect your feeling, but the fact that in Mockingjay Katniss is the only one who keeps falling apart and be the person who everyone "saves" (many people died for her, and at the end - she is saved by the doctor I don't remember the name of) does not make her into a paragon of feminism.

Lol, I think my brain is a computer, But this is about the ratio I "get" from various sources about Mockingjay. may be 70:30. There is a strong enough percentage of Kantiss' fans, but overall - I have seen too many negative comments..