Sorry to be jumping into a heated discussion but I want to join too!joie_de_vivre3December 21 2011, 04:56:51 UTC
To preface, "Mockingjay" wasn't my favorite in the series nor the first.With that said, I thought the one thing the last book did well was showing the disintegration of Katniss which for me was pretty realistic. I'm gonna argue point by point with you since I like bulleting style :)
1) I think this issue goes back to your dislike of HG world building so for you the Arena battling wasn't enough of a traumatic experience, but for me, it was pretty hellish. I mean to be thrown together in this confined spaced with people constantly trying to murder you, and you're constantly debating whether you should become a murderer to save yourself is as hellish as I can imagine. Personally, if I was her, I probably just jump off a cliff and be done with it because I certainly can't take that kind of pressure.
2) I feel a tad offended by this point because it's almost like you're victim blaming. Everyone have a different way to cope and different time to heal so to say " HOW DARE YOU NOT COPING WITH THIS WHEN EVERYONE ELSE IS A-OK!?" is just unsympathetic.And I think it was quite brave of Collins to lead Katniss towards this path of character development. While Katniss is extremely capable and badass, she's still human and thus she reacted probably like how most humans would react to such extreme situations. She broke down.
3) I think a main flaw with Katniss is that she doesn't put her trusts in many which I think is a result of the crappy world she lives in. So for Haymitch to use her as a pawn makes that teetering trust she had in him to be shaky once again. Furthermore, she's rarely given a chance to act on her own agency. She's continuously being thrown in situations not of her own makings. Plus she's angry, deeply angry that she was saved at the expense of Peeta. The girl was unhinged enough that she was trying to find Peeta to kill him and spare him the pain at the end of book 2. So for her to distrust the whole establishment and not paying particular attention to the finer details of the whole plan is understandable to me. Plus, another character trait for Katniss is that while smart and resourceful, she's not cunning. She's not particularly adept at maneuvering people for her own gains. Look at her attempts with Peeta which was pretty awkward and nonexistent. If Peeta wasn't in love with her, her whole attempt would pretty much kaput from the get go.
4) I don't really see how Katniss is selfish. Granted my memory of the book is hazy now so I can't recall words for words her reaction to Peeta's torture. Even if let's say her reaction was "my heart is breaking", what's so bad about that? What's so bad about hurting on someone's behalf so badly that you feel as if your heart is breaking? That to me doesn't read selfishness.
Despite my lengthy contradictions with your points, I totally understand that every book is up for interpretation which is what make reading so cool =D I just want to put in my two cents (or more like dollars b/c man, long post!) because you said that Katniss is as bad as Bella which make me very sad on Katniss' behalf. And I'm not even a fan of this series! But Bella would so die right off in the arena, man! We know this. hur
1) Yes, it does. As I mentioned in some other comments, In A Song of Ice and Fire (for example) I feel the danger and the horror. In HG? No , I don't.
2) I honestly can't see how I can offend you personally - we are discussing fictional characters here, and what I am stating is my opinion (largely influenced by 1)).
But you might be missing my point here. I have nothing against Katniss herself (for the record, neither I have anything against Bella). As far as I am concerned, all girls are good, ALL! What I am objecting to is that in these books, as in many books before them, it is THE GIRL who is overemotional and can't deal and etc. etc. THE BOYS seem to deal perfectly fine! EVEN FINICK! He has recovered after the clinical death (I am further down in the book now) Even Peeta! But Katniss is still all over the place. I want THE GIRL to be able to deal for once! So again, I don't understand how can I offend YOU here. :( 3) Honestly, we'll have to agree to disagree here. The person that pays no attention to "finer details" as well as "the whole plan" is a low-intelligence person in my book.
4) I tell you what is wrong. :D It is like when I hurt my leg badly and my sister was rolling in hysterics because SHE felt so bad about it. Her hysterics didn't help me in any way, and I don't think Katniss' hysterics can help Peeta.
And YAY! I am the same - I don't at all imply that your points are invalid, they are just right for .. you.
Re: Bella. I am not sure how Katniss survived in the arena now. :(
1) I think this issue goes back to your dislike of HG world building so for you the Arena battling wasn't enough of a traumatic experience, but for me, it was pretty hellish. I mean to be thrown together in this confined spaced with people constantly trying to murder you, and you're constantly debating whether you should become a murderer to save yourself is as hellish as I can imagine. Personally, if I was her, I probably just jump off a cliff and be done with it because I certainly can't take that kind of pressure.
2) I feel a tad offended by this point because it's almost like you're victim blaming. Everyone have a different way to cope and different time to heal so to say " HOW DARE YOU NOT COPING WITH THIS WHEN EVERYONE ELSE IS A-OK!?" is just unsympathetic.And I think it was quite brave of Collins to lead Katniss towards this path of character development. While Katniss is extremely capable and badass, she's still human and thus she reacted probably like how most humans would react to such extreme situations. She broke down.
3) I think a main flaw with Katniss is that she doesn't put her trusts in many which I think is a result of the crappy world she lives in. So for Haymitch to use her as a pawn makes that teetering trust she had in him to be shaky once again. Furthermore, she's rarely given a chance to act on her own agency. She's continuously being thrown in situations not of her own makings. Plus she's angry, deeply angry that she was saved at the expense of Peeta. The girl was unhinged enough that she was trying to find Peeta to kill him and spare him the pain at the end of book 2. So for her to distrust the whole establishment and not paying particular attention to the finer details of the whole plan is understandable to me. Plus, another character trait for Katniss is that while smart and resourceful, she's not cunning. She's not particularly adept at maneuvering people for her own gains. Look at her attempts with Peeta which was pretty awkward and nonexistent. If Peeta wasn't in love with her, her whole attempt would pretty much kaput from the get go.
4) I don't really see how Katniss is selfish. Granted my memory of the book is hazy now so I can't recall words for words her reaction to Peeta's torture. Even if let's say her reaction was "my heart is breaking", what's so bad about that? What's so bad about hurting on someone's behalf so badly that you feel as if your heart is breaking? That to me doesn't read selfishness.
Despite my lengthy contradictions with your points, I totally understand that every book is up for interpretation which is what make reading so cool =D I just want to put in my two cents (or more like dollars b/c man, long post!) because you said that Katniss is as bad as Bella which make me very sad on Katniss' behalf. And I'm not even a fan of this series! But Bella would so die right off in the arena, man! We know this. hur
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1) Yes, it does. As I mentioned in some other comments, In A Song of Ice and Fire (for example) I feel the danger and the horror. In HG? No , I don't.
2) I honestly can't see how I can offend you personally - we are discussing fictional characters here, and what I am stating is my opinion (largely influenced by 1)).
But you might be missing my point here. I have nothing against Katniss herself (for the record, neither I have anything against Bella). As far as I am concerned, all girls are good, ALL! What I am objecting to is that in these books, as in many books before them, it is THE GIRL who is overemotional and can't deal and etc. etc. THE BOYS seem to deal perfectly fine! EVEN FINICK! He has recovered after the clinical death (I am further down in the book now) Even Peeta! But Katniss is still all over the place. I want THE GIRL to be able to deal for once!
So again, I don't understand how can I offend YOU here. :(
3) Honestly, we'll have to agree to disagree here. The person that pays no attention to "finer details" as well as "the whole plan" is a low-intelligence person in my book.
4) I tell you what is wrong. :D It is like when I hurt my leg badly and my sister was rolling in hysterics because SHE felt so bad about it. Her hysterics didn't help me in any way, and I don't think Katniss' hysterics can help Peeta.
And YAY! I am the same - I don't at all imply that your points are invalid, they are just right for .. you.
Re: Bella. I am not sure how Katniss survived in the arena now. :(
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