Currently Alan's keeping Zippy at arm's length, since she's been posting about once every two months and only when she's having some sort of crisis. He expects her to vanish (er, from the internet) one of these days and doesn't think that would be such a bad thing--she seems to use the net as an escape from the real world. In the meantime he'll offer assistance in the form of advice and banter. At one point he came very close to telling her about Denny, but he's glad he didn't and no longer plans to.
Whenever he talks to Zippy there's this sense of relief, of being able to relax--not to the extent he relaxes around Denny, but still. She's intelligent, she can hold her own with him in conversation, she's not (thank God) in her teens or twenties so he doesn't have to pull his punches or make allowances for her age. He can make literary references without worrying about seeming like a nerd or being met with (the internet equivalent of) a blank look. Sometimes he feels like he and Zippy (well, and Kara) operate in a different reality from everyone else--a reality where love doesn't always triumph and it sometimes rains while you're on vacation and they don't serve ice cream in hospitals so on.
Despite the widespread insistence that they'd make a great couple, Alan doesn't think he and Zippy would even be functional romantically. The few times they've had serious disagreements, Zippy's refused to admit she was wrong or even that she could be wrong (this is totally different from Alan's need to always be right!). She always has to be the one with the answers, and it would drive Alan nuts. He's also under the impression that she was sexually abused or traumatized in some way, so while he'll make suggestive remarks to his heart's content, he wouldn't try anything without her express invitation. (Well, he probably wouldn't try anything at all because HE'S MARRIED, but that's another matter.)
He's attracted to Zippy mostly on an intellectual level (which makes sense, seeing as they've met like twice), but with Alan that's probably more important than physical factors. He likes her sense of humor and her willingness to participate in (or instigate!) word games.
The Rachel situation. Alan, having been the kid that nobody really wanted around and who spent a lot of his childhood feeling either superfluous or unwelcome in his own home, sympathizes with Rachel a great deal. (He's also aware that if Rachel knew he was defending her, she'd probably tell him to shut the fuck up. In fact, he's kind of waiting for it to happen.) He thinks Zippy treats her much too harshly and that...well, that Zippy needs to be the adult and reach out to her daughter. But it's none of his business and it's not as though he's some kind of expert on child-rearing, so he tries to stay out of it. It makes him sad, though.
He wonders what Zippy was like before she started taking medication (although he's now convinced she needs it). Actually, he wonders what she was like when she was younger period. He'd love to hear stories about Max, but he'd understand if she didn't want to talk about him. Whenever Zippy talks about her faith he feels...inadequate, I suppose, and out of his depth and a little jealous. He just doesn't have the capacity for it that she does.
A lot of this is pretty dead-on, yeah. Zippy using the Internet for stress relief = absolutely!
I actually tend to agree on the romantic front, at least in Zippy's current mental and emotional state. Even completely aside from her issues with sex, she's got a lot of stuff she needs to learn and work out before she'd be capable of a healthy relationship with anyone.
> She always has to be the one with the answers
Yes, yes, and yes. This is where her journal name comes from, which is meant both tongue-in-cheekly but also on a deeper level rather sadly reflective of her issues. She clings a lot to being the one who has everything figured out, even when she's way, way off-base. To some extent she's aware of this (the letter she wrote to her kid self had lots of: 'you're not always right' in it), but nevertheless she can't quite seem to stop doing it. She owes a lot of people in her life apologies right now (Rachel not least among them), and part of her long-term character growth is hopefully going to be in that direction. (And I will laugh as she squirms.)
Zippy has an immense amount of guilt, also, over having been a bad mother to both Ben and Rachel. While I doubt she will ever confess this to anyone not her therapist, when the kids were younger (before she started medication), she was borderline abusive when in the grip of her out-of-control anger (Ben has a scar from when he was ten and she threw a plate). So, while she does feel shitty over the current situation with Rachel, she views it as more... the cherry-on-top of her ongoing failure as a mother, and on some level thinks Rachel is likely better off with her father anyway. (She's also trying not to admit to herself how much easier Rachel-being-with-her-father makes her life.) IN CONCLUSION THE RACHEL SITUATION IS A HUGE FREAKING MESS, ahem.
I will hopefully start writing some stuff about her friendship with Max.
Yeah, and I didn't even touch on the reasons Alan shouldn't be pursuing anyone romantically, which could fill a book. Whenever someone suggests that he and Zippy date, he feels compelled to sit them down and explain that life is not a romantic comedy.
on some level thinks Rachel is likely better off with her father anyway.
Alan wouldn't be at all surprised to learn this, but he'd point out that Zippy got herself into this mess by attempting to determine what was best for Rachel without seeking her input. Maybe she (Zippy) should give her (Rachel) the opportunity to decide for herself.
Sure! His thoughts on Paul are in the works, but with all the family stuff going on I'm not sure I'll have time to write/post them this weekend.
...and explain that life is not a romantic comedy.
Haha, iconable.
Maybe she (Zippy) should give her (Rachel) the opportunity to decide for herself.
Given how many times Zippy's heard from Rachel that she'd rather be living with her father, she figures she's heard her input, ha ha. (Zippy is possibly not able to draw the distinction between things a 15-year-old says out of spite and genuine statements.)
Woo! I will type them up. No rush on Paul, I understand. I was re-reading old prompts of his yesterday and thinking I miss him.
Of course, the obvious retort to that would be "When was the last time you watched a romantic comedy, Alan?" (And he would say, "Does Blue Velvet count?")
Yessss, but it's not so much about hearing the input as seeking it out. (I'm sure Alan would have a harder time making that determination if the fifteen-year-old in question were his.)
I could start trying to do prompts with him again I suppose, but I feel that in some respects I kind of wrote out everything I could with him. I mean, at the end of the film he's like 95% of the way along his character arc to "CRASH AND BURN", so unless I focus on a) backstory stuff or b) possible variations on what happens in the crash and burn..... I'm mostly just writing the same stuff over and over. Marrrrrhh.
You could do the crash and burn (of course, if you're 100% certain it's going to end in his death, I'd prefer you didn't...). I mean, you'd be (presumably) taking away his job, which is a big part of who he is, but the core of the character would remain the same. There must be a way to play out an aftermath without killing him or forcing him to spend the rest of his natural life in prison.
If that sounds too insane, I'd say look through old topics and see if anything inspires.
I'd say odds are like, oh, 75% it'd end in his death, another 20% it'd end with him imprisoned, a slim 5% option where he lives, with various within-that-five-percent allotment options of "living and keeping his job", "living and not keeping his job", "living and the brothers dying" etc etc. I could just write out various versions but I think they're all going to be depressing as hell, whether we're in the 75, 20, or 5 percent bracket. It may not end with him dying or in prison, but I've never been able to work out a way it ends happily or even close to it.
Zippy's thoughts on AlanzippyknowsbestAugust 4 2009, 22:34:30 UTC
Let's see here.
Firstly, Zippy similarly relaxes around Alan, sorta kinda? On two levels. She also appreciates that Alan is an adult with all that comes with it and that, therefore, she's not having to give advice/play the wise elder imparting life lessons, but can interact with him more as an equal. On another level, she likes the flirting and banter because it makes her feel normal and, I suppose, like herself-- herself before the meds, before so much of what's happened in her life. She's grateful for that.
On the flip side I think that because he is an adult she takes his criticisms, when they come, more to heart and gets more defensive about it. If Peter or JP or one of the other 20-somethings is saying "um I don't know if you are handling Rachel properly" she can dismiss it fairly easily as they-don't-know-what-they're-talking-about. When it comes from Alan, though... well, haha, she still doesn't think he knows what he's talking about because he's not a parent, but she is still more bothered by the criticism.
Zippy does find Alan attractive which surprises her, haha. (He's so not her type, or what has traditionally been her type anyway.) She's a little pleased by that and a little skeered of that and a little frustrated by that (the latter since she is aware of her inability to act on it).
Zippy is both a little envious of Alan's friendship with Denny (as in, she's jealous of Alan for having a close friendship like that since she doesn't have one anymore) and very empathetic when the topic of Denny's mortality comes up. She's a little worried for Alan's sake whenever the inevitable happens, because she doesn't perceive him as having much/anything in the way of support people other than Denny-- never any mention of any family, etc.
Zippy's mildly curious as to Alan's family, for that matter, and feels bad for him if he doesn't have any family close enough to mention (family is such a big part of her world), but is also not going to pry about that since the not-mentioning is, of course, a statement in its own right.
Zippy thinks Alan is a genuinely good and very decent person, which in no way contradicts with her also being aware he's probably fully capable of doing nasty things in the name of his profession. I think she believes he maybe tries very hard to be a good friend in compensation for that, really.
Zippy feels comfortable enough with Alan that she'll tell him things she won't to other Internet-people, but not anything related to the serious side of the supernatural (minor things like tarot cards don't count) because she has strict self-imposed lines about not, ah, popping anyone's cherry there so to speak. So, weirdly, she'll talk more honestly about things like demons with someone like JP, just because she already knows he knows about that Stuff. So, in an odd way, she finds herself feeling rather protective of Alan on that count, and not wanting to expose him to that nonsense. (Never mind that since he talks to Mike he obviously knows about it on some level anyway...)
Alan makes her laugh. She's grateful for that too.
Re: Zippy's thoughts on Alanalan_shoreAugust 5 2009, 00:31:21 UTC
she still doesn't think he knows what he's talking about because he's not a parent
Maybe she should discuss it with Kara 0:) Actually, I'd pay good money to read that conversation.
Zippy thinks Alan is a genuinely good and very decent person
Oh, thank God she hasn't told him this. He'd either freak out and do something atrocious or decide it means she doesn't know him at all. You have to have known him for at least a decade before you can pronounce him a decent person, Zippy!
Whenever he talks to Zippy there's this sense of relief, of being able to relax--not to the extent he relaxes around Denny, but still. She's intelligent, she can hold her own with him in conversation, she's not (thank God) in her teens or twenties so he doesn't have to pull his punches or make allowances for her age. He can make literary references without worrying about seeming like a nerd or being met with (the internet equivalent of) a blank look. Sometimes he feels like he and Zippy (well, and Kara) operate in a different reality from everyone else--a reality where love doesn't always triumph and it sometimes rains while you're on vacation and they don't serve ice cream in hospitals so on.
Despite the widespread insistence that they'd make a great couple, Alan doesn't think he and Zippy would even be functional romantically. The few times they've had serious disagreements, Zippy's refused to admit she was wrong or even that she could be wrong (this is totally different from Alan's need to always be right!). She always has to be the one with the answers, and it would drive Alan nuts. He's also under the impression that she was sexually abused or traumatized in some way, so while he'll make suggestive remarks to his heart's content, he wouldn't try anything without her express invitation. (Well, he probably wouldn't try anything at all because HE'S MARRIED, but that's another matter.)
He's attracted to Zippy mostly on an intellectual level (which makes sense, seeing as they've met like twice), but with Alan that's probably more important than physical factors. He likes her sense of humor and her willingness to participate in (or instigate!) word games.
The Rachel situation. Alan, having been the kid that nobody really wanted around and who spent a lot of his childhood feeling either superfluous or unwelcome in his own home, sympathizes with Rachel a great deal. (He's also aware that if Rachel knew he was defending her, she'd probably tell him to shut the fuck up. In fact, he's kind of waiting for it to happen.) He thinks Zippy treats her much too harshly and that...well, that Zippy needs to be the adult and reach out to her daughter. But it's none of his business and it's not as though he's some kind of expert on child-rearing, so he tries to stay out of it. It makes him sad, though.
He wonders what Zippy was like before she started taking medication (although he's now convinced she needs it). Actually, he wonders what she was like when she was younger period. He'd love to hear stories about Max, but he'd understand if she didn't want to talk about him. Whenever Zippy talks about her faith he feels...inadequate, I suppose, and out of his depth and a little jealous. He just doesn't have the capacity for it that she does.
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I actually tend to agree on the romantic front, at least in Zippy's current mental and emotional state. Even completely aside from her issues with sex, she's got a lot of stuff she needs to learn and work out before she'd be capable of a healthy relationship with anyone.
> She always has to be the one with the answers
Yes, yes, and yes. This is where her journal name comes from, which is meant both tongue-in-cheekly but also on a deeper level rather sadly reflective of her issues. She clings a lot to being the one who has everything figured out, even when she's way, way off-base. To some extent she's aware of this (the letter she wrote to her kid self had lots of: 'you're not always right' in it), but nevertheless she can't quite seem to stop doing it. She owes a lot of people in her life apologies right now (Rachel not least among them), and part of her long-term character growth is hopefully going to be in that direction. (And I will laugh as she squirms.)
Zippy has an immense amount of guilt, also, over having been a bad mother to both Ben and Rachel. While I doubt she will ever confess this to anyone not her therapist, when the kids were younger (before she started medication), she was borderline abusive when in the grip of her out-of-control anger (Ben has a scar from when he was ten and she threw a plate). So, while she does feel shitty over the current situation with Rachel, she views it as more... the cherry-on-top of her ongoing failure as a mother, and on some level thinks Rachel is likely better off with her father anyway. (She's also trying not to admit to herself how much easier Rachel-being-with-her-father makes her life.) IN CONCLUSION THE RACHEL SITUATION IS A HUGE FREAKING MESS, ahem.
I will hopefully start writing some stuff about her friendship with Max.
DO YOU WANT HER THOUGHTS ON ALAN?!
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on some level thinks Rachel is likely better off with her father anyway.
Alan wouldn't be at all surprised to learn this, but he'd point out that Zippy got herself into this mess by attempting to determine what was best for Rachel without seeking her input. Maybe she (Zippy) should give her (Rachel) the opportunity to decide for herself.
Sure! His thoughts on Paul are in the works, but with all the family stuff going on I'm not sure I'll have time to write/post them this weekend.
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Haha, iconable.
Maybe she (Zippy) should give her (Rachel) the opportunity to decide for herself.
Given how many times Zippy's heard from Rachel that she'd rather be living with her father, she figures she's heard her input, ha ha. (Zippy is possibly not able to draw the distinction between things a 15-year-old says out of spite and genuine statements.)
Woo! I will type them up. No rush on Paul, I understand. I was re-reading old prompts of his yesterday and thinking I miss him.
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Yessss, but it's not so much about hearing the input as seeking it out. (I'm sure Alan would have a harder time making that determination if the fifteen-year-old in question were his.)
Awww, I miss him too.
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Yes, valid point.
I could start trying to do prompts with him again I suppose, but I feel that in some respects I kind of wrote out everything I could with him. I mean, at the end of the film he's like 95% of the way along his character arc to "CRASH AND BURN", so unless I focus on a) backstory stuff or b) possible variations on what happens in the crash and burn..... I'm mostly just writing the same stuff over and over. Marrrrrhh.
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If that sounds too insane, I'd say look through old topics and see if anything inspires.
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Firstly, Zippy similarly relaxes around Alan, sorta kinda? On two levels. She also appreciates that Alan is an adult with all that comes with it and that, therefore, she's not having to give advice/play the wise elder imparting life lessons, but can interact with him more as an equal. On another level, she likes the flirting and banter because it makes her feel normal and, I suppose, like herself-- herself before the meds, before so much of what's happened in her life. She's grateful for that.
On the flip side I think that because he is an adult she takes his criticisms, when they come, more to heart and gets more defensive about it. If Peter or JP or one of the other 20-somethings is saying "um I don't know if you are handling Rachel properly" she can dismiss it fairly easily as they-don't-know-what-they're-talking-about. When it comes from Alan, though... well, haha, she still doesn't think he knows what he's talking about because he's not a parent, but she is still more bothered by the criticism.
Zippy does find Alan attractive which surprises her, haha. (He's so not her type, or what has traditionally been her type anyway.) She's a little pleased by that and a little skeered of that and a little frustrated by that (the latter since she is aware of her inability to act on it).
Zippy is both a little envious of Alan's friendship with Denny (as in, she's jealous of Alan for having a close friendship like that since she doesn't have one anymore) and very empathetic when the topic of Denny's mortality comes up. She's a little worried for Alan's sake whenever the inevitable happens, because she doesn't perceive him as having much/anything in the way of support people other than Denny-- never any mention of any family, etc.
Zippy's mildly curious as to Alan's family, for that matter, and feels bad for him if he doesn't have any family close enough to mention (family is such a big part of her world), but is also not going to pry about that since the not-mentioning is, of course, a statement in its own right.
Zippy thinks Alan is a genuinely good and very decent person, which in no way contradicts with her also being aware he's probably fully capable of doing nasty things in the name of his profession. I think she believes he maybe tries very hard to be a good friend in compensation for that, really.
Zippy feels comfortable enough with Alan that she'll tell him things she won't to other Internet-people, but not anything related to the serious side of the supernatural (minor things like tarot cards don't count) because she has strict self-imposed lines about not, ah, popping anyone's cherry there so to speak. So, weirdly, she'll talk more honestly about things like demons with someone like JP, just because she already knows he knows about that Stuff. So, in an odd way, she finds herself feeling rather protective of Alan on that count, and not wanting to expose him to that nonsense. (Never mind that since he talks to Mike he obviously knows about it on some level anyway...)
Alan makes her laugh. She's grateful for that too.
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Maybe she should discuss it with Kara 0:) Actually, I'd pay good money to read that conversation.
Zippy thinks Alan is a genuinely good and very decent person
Oh, thank God she hasn't told him this. He'd either freak out and do something atrocious or decide it means she doesn't know him at all. You have to have known him for at least a decade before you can pronounce him a decent person, Zippy!
Alan makes her laugh.
Awwww. He considers that high praise.
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