Symptom of Rape Culture?
I'd really like as many as possible to comment on this, if you have the time/inclinations/a lot of feelings, okay?
It's about this story of mine. It's also available here if you aren't a member of H&V. In the Darkness, All Cats are Grey.
I just received a PM about that fic. Rather than summarize it, I will copy it in its entirety, leaving out who ( Read more... )
It's about this story of mine. It's also available here if you aren't a member of H&V. In the Darkness, All Cats are Grey.
I just received a PM about that fic. Rather than summarize it, I will copy it in its entirety, leaving out who ( Read more... )
There should probably have been some more disclosure in there about how, if she acknowledges that this isn't Ron, she won't feel like she can go on, so adamantly sticking to the Ron-Ron-Ron schtick is necessary for her own peace of mind. And that, right there, is useful knowledge for me as an author who likes to write skeevy stuff. Because there comes a time when the stuff out-skeeves itself to some of the readers, because they aren't inside my head.
I sincerely think this might indeed be a case of being too subtle. I know how hard it can be to walk the line between hinting strongly at things and shouting them at the reader. But in this case... Yeah, I don't see that point where Hermione should go "Wait a minute, is this Ron? Hey, maybe not..." Every time we see her wondering what's going on, she immediately backtracks into "Gee, Ron sure is weird and different tonight!" Ron, always Ron.
Well, like I've said in other comments, I actually think that dub-con is also rape, whether that's the actual legal picture or not. For me, it's just a way to label something that isn't out-and-out the rapee fighting and/or saying no etc, but where they e.g. do consent but under false pretenses. For you, that false consent clearly still falls under non-con, same for eevilalice, and G doesn't seem to like the dub-con label much at all. It's something worth considering in general when posting fic that is morally skeevy in the future, at the very least.
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Aha, I see! Well, it didn't work for me because I didn't see that time where she goes, even if unconsciously, "This isn't Ron, but I want it to be Ron, so lalala, it's Ron!" To me, it always read as "Ron sure is weird tonight, but hey, I don't mind his weirdness so whatever," which is not the same thing at all. You'll notice that I've emphasized that this is the way *I* saw it, because it's very possible that many other readers easily caught on to what you were trying to achieve.
And that, right there, is useful knowledge for me as an author who likes to write skeevy stuff. Because there comes a time when the stuff out-skeeves itself to some of the readers, because they aren't inside my head.
Tell me about that :D ! I was greatly helped in this matter by a special beta, back when I started writing really skeevy stuff, who had a tendency to trip over each and every narrative hole I left in the text. Her brain worked so differently from mine that I could never cut any corner without her flatly going "That doesn't work for me" or downright misunderstanding my intent.
Well, like I've said in other comments, I actually think that dub-con is also rape, whether that's the actual legal picture or not.
I actually tend to think that way as well, which is why I like the concept of dub-con in fic: because it allows us to say "This is skeevy stuff, even if it's not legally rape." It doesn't keep us tied down to the various legal definitions of rape. It allows us to say, "Okay, sure, in RL he wouldn't go to jail for what he did, but it's still morally wrong."
For me, it's just a way to label something that isn't out-and-out the rapee fighting and/or saying no etc, but where they e.g. do consent but under false pretenses. For you, that false consent clearly still falls under non-con,
Eeeeh, not necessarily ;) Whether I'd label it dub-con or non-con depends on many things, really.
To me, non-con is the straightforward one: does everybody involved clearly consent to the sexual acts taking place, with these specific partners? If the answer is a clear "No!", then it's non-con. That's why I personally would label your fic non-con, since I don't see Hermione consenting to any kind of sex with Draco at any point. No consent. Now, if at some point I clearly saw her going "Okay, this isn't Ron, but I'll keep pretending it is and I want to go on with this," then I'd probably see it as dub-con. Basically, I have the white consent, the black non-con, and everything else in-between is some degree of dub-con.
It's something worth considering in general when posting fic that is morally skeevy in the future, at the very least.
I write so much skeevy stuff that I had to put an A/N on a fully consensual rape roleplay fic, reassuring my readers that everything was consensual and was exactly how the POV character was presenting it :P And even like that, I still had one reader checking with me that "he was pretending, right?" :D
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And there could be many who, like eevilalice felt off about it but didn't speak out. It's really impossible to tell. The only thing I know is that it's popular, but hawtness excuses a lot, is what I've learned.
But with this in mind, I may be better equipped in the future to make sure I put in that one crucial line that makes all the difference, you know? Not to mention that I already think I improved my writing skillz a ton over the last three years.
Tell me about that :D ! I was greatly helped in this matter by a special beta, back when I started writing really skeevy stuff, who had a tendency to trip over each and every narrative hole I left in the text. Her brain worked so differently from mine that I could never cut any corner without her flatly going "That doesn't work for me" or downright misunderstanding my intent.
Haha, been there, done that. I've had quite the discussions with some of my betas at times. I tend to prefer someone who knows where I'm coming from, though, because I remember this one time in the beginning of Bracelet I kept having a beta complain about how MEAN Draco was and be all D: - no matter how often I tried to tell her that this was by design. Eventually I got sick of it and found someone else.
I write so much skeevy stuff that I had to put an A/N on a fully consensual rape roleplay fic, reassuring my readers that everything was consensual and was exactly how the POV character was presenting it :P And even like that, I still had one reader checking with me that "he was pretending, right?" :D
Hahaha, yeah, there'll always be someone. And not even only about skeeviness. On my current WIP I put in an extra A/N that the characters' views aren't reflecting my views, because they're discussing stuff like sexual equality and even abortion etc at times and they're not my damn mouthpieces, they simply clash. A lot. I can't make them discuss house-elves in every damn fic. -_-
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Oh yeah. Oooooh yeah!
I remember this one time in the beginning of Bracelet I kept having a beta complain about how MEAN Draco was and be all D: - no matter how often I tried to tell her that this was by design.
Er yes, that would be annoying. The beta I mentioned would have taken my word for it that it was by design and stopped bugging me about it unless I started acting like Draco wasn't supposed to be seen as mean any more and she still felt he was.
On my current WIP I put in an extra A/N that the characters' views aren't reflecting my views, because they're discussing stuff like sexual equality and even abortion etc at times and they're not my damn mouthpieces, they simply clash.
You know, it's kinda scary to imagine that anyone would think that I share all the views that I put in my characters' mouths O.o
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