Comments | akashathekitty: Symptom of Rape Culture?

akashathekitty

Symptom of Rape Culture?

Dec 03, 2010 15:34

I'd really like as many as possible to comment on this, if you have the time/inclinations/a lot of feelings, okay?

It's about this story of mine. It's also available here if you aren't a member of H&V. In the Darkness, All Cats are Grey.

I just received a PM about that fic. Rather than summarize it, I will copy it in its entirety, leaving out who ( Read more... )

dub-con/non-con, my thoughts on yaoi, discussion, rape culture, intent is magical, in the darkness..., i have a lot of feeeeelings

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eevilalice December 3 2010, 18:10:06 UTC

Thanks for opening up this discussion. Let's see if I can organize some of my thoughts.

Of the work you've written that I've read, this story is actually my least favorite, primarily due to reasons along the lines of those mentioned in the PM you quoted. At the time, I don't think I could articulate the issue, but I think it may have been that I do find the story to be non-con instead of dub-con (as others have noted, this can be a fine line in fanfic, and each reader has her understanding of the terms).

I believe you're overstating Hermione's awareness or suspicions regarding who she's with. I just reread the story, and it seems to me that, though she does note that assumed-Ron (Draco) is being different in several places, and even thinks to herself it would be hot to pretend it's a stranger, she still assumes it's Ron. She only thinks that it's easy to imagine that it's someone else. She's shocked when she discovers it wasn't actually Ron when she speaks with him later. You also make every effort to show that, yeah, Draco wouldn't force sex on her, but the whole time he knows or is quite sure that she thinks he's Ron, so he is violating her.

The story didn't "trigger" me or anything, and I'd never ask you to change it (or even the warning if the summary does an adequate job outlining the scenario). Only in fanfic would a reader demand such changes to an actual story, but that's the nature of this community, where the barrier between writer and reader is so flimsy.

As far as perpetuating rape culture...I can't say I'm concerned with a rapist's perspective in this instance, but rapists aren't the only participants in a rape culture. That's not an accusation, btw, just an observation, just as I'd like to say that saying rape is only about power and not at all about sex seems to me to be naive.

akashathekitty December 3 2010, 18:42:25 UTC

I believe you're overstating Hermione's awareness or suspicions regarding who she's with.

I may very well be. I read a lot into the details myself. I recall when I wrote it, I was actually concerned about whether it was too subtle but my beta (at the time) didn't want me to add more. No, I'm not saying that anything is my beta's fault, but I remember that so clearly that it's very possible my goggles are different than any of my readers' goggles. It's just a bit odd to me that in almost three years nobody ever made the observation that it was more non- than dub-con if more than a handful of people feels that way.

The story didn't "trigger" me or anything, and I'd never ask you to change it (or even the warning if the summary does an adequate job outlining the scenario).

I'm still iffy about calling it straight-up non-con (as that has different connotations with more far-reaching consequences to me) but I'd be willing to make an extra note or addition to the summary that more clearly states the scenario if it's lacking.

As far as perpetuating rape culture...I can't say I'm concerned with a rapist's perspective in this instance, but rapists aren't the only participants in a rape culture. That's not an accusation, btw, just an observation, just as I'd like to say that saying rape is only about power and not at all about sex seems to me to be naive.

The thing about rape culture is that everyone perpetuates it. I watched some mind-numbingly stupid reality show the other day where some guy who supposedly was some kind of therapist told a woman that if she didn't stop acting so slutty, she was gonna get raped. Now that is clear-cut rape culture, telling women to behave a certain way or they're "asking for it". I didn't feel like I excused Draco's behaviour in ITDACAG and made it okay - I felt like I portrayed him as the asshole he was, although he did get off the hook easy.

Kind of offtopic: There is actually a second part to ITDACAG (not publicly posted) where he deliberately gets her drunk to sleep with her again. When it comes down to it, however, she's too drunk and he's turned off the whole thing, but when she seems to recover some of her faculties (later he discovers she'd been completely sobered through a spell), they do some sexual stuff albeit no PIV. His intentions were there. That one has, like, "intended non-con but really wtf?" which makes my head hurt when I consider how I'd label that. (A third part was supposed to have her get back at him and use him, leaving him with a bitter taste, but I doubt I'll get around to writing that any time soon. It's just to say that it's generally a very dysfunctional setting.)

eevilalice December 3 2010, 19:05:26 UTC

I think Draco's behavior feels condoned to me because of the way in which it's repeatedly made clear how concerned he is about forcing himself on her physically, about hurting her, even when it comes to his little internal comments regarding her pleasure and how Ron seemed less concerned with that given Hermione's reactions and comments. In short, you don't make Draco much of an asshole when it comes to his interaction with Hermione except for the issue of his not caring that she doesn't know it's him, and that's made to feel like such a minor thing in comparison. I think that may have been what bothered me most. It's like, "Aw, Draco's so considerate, he's always secretly wanted Hermione, and he's giving her more pleasure than Ron, her boyfriend."

I don't agree that everyone perpetuates rape culture, though I would say that most cultures are rape cultures (if that makes sense)?

akashathekitty December 3 2010, 19:13:51 UTC

In short, you don't make Draco much of an asshole when it comes to his interaction with Hermione except for the issue of his not caring that she doesn't know it's him, and that's made to feel like such a minor thing in comparison. I think that may have been what bothered me most. It's like, "Aw, Draco's so considerate, he's always secretly wanted Hermione, and he's giving her more pleasure than Ron, her boyfriend."

That's valuable information. I don't condone Draco's behaviour or even his ideas about Ron's skills, but he is an unreliable narrator and I may have assumed too much from the reader in the "of course he's an asshole, duh! He's Draco Malfoy!" respect. The fact that he's concerned with hurting her physically is actually rather ironic when coupled with how he easily convinces himself that it's all right to trick her into having sex with him.

I don't agree that everyone perpetuates rape culture

Okay, I'll grant that not every individual does, but far too many people think it's perfectly fine to be concerned with how women dress "because they could be raped" and that's a prime example of rape culture right there. :/

eevilalice December 3 2010, 19:19:07 UTC

I mean, it's amazing how likable you make Draco in the story and in this situation! I think that's part of why the story is so well-liked and why no one's raised the issue before now.

akashathekitty December 3 2010, 19:27:08 UTC

Like I said in another comment, fandom allows some stupid shit to fly at times and that's why discussions like these are valuable. I'm not sure I would actually have written Draco much differently, but I could have made sure to disclaim better. And also have reconsidered some of the subtleties in the story.