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Jun 04, 2007 19:37

Lonliness is an interesting thing. I think that it's something that I've suffered from all ym life without ever really understanding what it is. The need to reach out and to be reached out to, to see and be seen, to touch and hold and to be held is so powerful its almost breath-taking. That being said, I wonder about my life and the choices that I' ( Read more... )

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aetigae June 14 2007, 22:02:52 UTC
Very lucid. I did not mean to sound disbelieving. I was, however, curious as to the source of your metaphor and exploring more of its meanings and implications. If you continue to interact with me you will learn that I am a sucker for metaphor and that I will often try and dissect it to an atomic level.
I do understand your point in talking about an environment of controlling individuals and the subjugation of my own wants and needs. My argument for this, however, is to turn the tables. Would not the expression of my own desires as a higher priority than the desires of others simply turn me into one of the manipulators? Or, further still, if I was able to reconcile that the desires that I felt did not in any way negatively impact others, nor did they require others to subjugate their desires for mine, wouldn't I then be alone, a fate most terrible to think of? I think that it might be possible to argue that love, and relationships, require subjugating one's desires from time to time, and that without this element of empathy and sacrifice we could not have the institutions that our society believes in, like marriage, etc. By accepting the fact that sacrifice of one's desires is a part of any relationship, I am trying, in turn, to perfect that aspect and become a selfless being. Indeed, do not we honor and cherish those who are selfless? Are not they the ones whom we raise as a shinning example of humanity and charity? I have no global aspirations, but to become that on a domestic level with one's own peers and loved ones is to be the powerful figure among them, the one to whom the most love and admiration is directed. I want to be loved, so I seek this level.
I will also agree that love is something more expressed by what it isn't than what it is. Perhaps we shall never gain the words to truly express it. In fact, I just did a play concerned with this very idea.
Also, very true. Education is usually, in fact, the opposite of social layering. Thinking critically is the only truth.

Join the Fun
Weiler

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aetigae June 15 2007, 09:56:39 UTC
The metaphor is actually very Freudian. I think it is beautiful that you have that wonderful sense of curiosity.

In response to wants and needs: I would like to clarify some terminology so that it may be clear about a distinction between subjugation and abnegation.

The definition of subjugation is as follows:
# forced submission to control by others
# oppression: the act of subjugating by cruelty; "the tyrant's oppression of the people"
# conquest: the act of conquering

The definition of abnegation is as follows:
# the denial and rejection of a doctrine or belief; "abnegation of the Holy Trinity"
# renunciation of your own interests in favor of the interests of others

I deliberately used the word "abnegation" in the form of the second definition listed because I believe that it is more correct in describing the condition where there is a deficit of having your needs met. Subjugation would imply that you've had little to no part in this deficit, and while that may have been the case while you were a child, it seems that you utilize the former as means to provide other needs, such as safety and security in familial and familiar relationships.

You asked, "Would not the expression of my own desires as a higher priority than the desires of others simply turn me into one of the manipulators?" Most likely, yes. You may or may not recognize how denying your own needs for the sake of others still provides something for you. I make this as a quantitative statement, not a qualitative.

I did not understand your question of desires, negative impact, subjugation, and being alone. Can you restate the question?

When talking about love and relationships, please be careful not to confuse abnegation/subjugation with compromise. Compromising, in its best use, does not utilize consistent actions that emotionally or physically deprive self and/or other. Sacrifice and empathy in conjunction with Love and Compassion are lifelong lessons learned and are not easily summed up in this comment, nor do they seem to be consistent with what our society believes (please see original comment for statement about many of the organized religions). Jesus is one example: he was such a good man, that the human population doesn't seem to accept that he was a man; they have to make him out to be infinity times more, thus making Him unreachable. If he were here today, in the flesh, we would (as a society) most likely kill him again.

I will not claim that the things that have written here are the end-all-be-all. I will say that I am very deliberate in what I am attempting to expose, however, now may not be the time, and this is definitely not the medium. We all learn in our own time, if we are to learn at all. I wish the best for you.

Your Friend!

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