liberation of love (aka, "let the goat come to you")

[aethyrflux]

it is rare that i meet individuals whom i am able to trust so quickly and learn to love so unconditionally as i feel that i have in my relationships with todfox, and eposia... so, it just figures that eposia would have to move away for her career advancement just as we are getting to know one another. b/cs is not that far away, though... we moved her out there

Comments

not a correction, just a clarification :)

[valela]

I did enjoy our conversation. We do have a certain core of similar world views. With regard to expectations in relationships, however, what I meant to say was that I "feel" the same way that you do. I am in a very similar, if not the same emotional state. The subset of things I can deal with and things I have either no ability or no desire to deal with are very much the same as those you have expressed (to the extent that I understood and accurately interpreted what you were trying to say).

But for myself, I'm not sure I would elevate my feelings and desires to the level of moral imperative or anything. Lack of desire and expectation has long been considered a good and healthy goal by lots of different philosophies if not religions. Maybe as a buddhist, I believe everyone is better off if they don't expect anything and just appreciate what is offered them for what it is; accept what makes them happy and walk away from what doesn't with no regrets or attachments.

But I absolutely DO NOT think that it is abnormal, unnatural or a moral issue when people expect things based on what they have experienced or learned over the course of their lives. This is a necessary part of learning, noticing what happens under X,Y or Z situations and what results from it and then anticipating that given those same (or very similar) situations will yield the same results. It isn't hard to see how this very useful mechanism could get applied to relationships, and area where it is far less efficient or effective. But the most important moral position I hold is that we should all learn and practice patience. Including, not least of all, those people who are still struggling to discover themselves and their true Will. Patience with those people who are having a hard time rejecting patterns that have served them well, if not saved them in past situations. Understanding and sympathy are, in my mind, higher moral goods than lack of expectations. The path to freedom from attachment and expectation is just that, a path, it makes no sense to be angry, disappointed or frustrated with those who are on it but not yet at the end.

In a similar vein as tans_simian above - we just can't expect people to be where we are, even if it would mean that everyone was happier. We should both know from personal experience that the path is long and arduous and not always easy to see. We have had more than a decade longer to figure things out than some of the people in our lives. If truth be told, I think some are significantly further along than we were at that age.

But still, the spirit of your post with regard to our conversation is true, we are in much the same place.

Re: not a correction, just a clarification :)

[aethyrflux]

please note my clarification to trans_simian in the reply above... i, too think expectations are a natural thing... i just expect my partners to discuss their expectations with me and not to assume that i will fulfill them without an agreement to that effect. i do not intend to moralize (i don't want to "should" on people), but instead, i wish to discuss ethics... which i believe to be "a philosophical process one may use to question the rationale and efficacy of moral decisions." i also value understanding, sympathy, compassion, love, serenity, patience,

i was initially disappointed in myself for rationalizing away the red flags that my intuition had warned me about... i just had to review my boundaries in an attempt to improve communication for myself, and hopefully with others, as well! now that miscommunications have been cleared up and people are at least in the process of making amends, i do not see any real problem at this point. in fact, i feel that my relationships are stronger than ever! i know what i want in my relationships, and i feel that my partners are either clearer than i am, or at least in the process... and i don't believe that anyone has to compromise, when we can find win-win solutions to these situations.

and i have never begrudged anyone for choosing, or even thinking about choosing a different path (inert gestalt prayer here)... i have questioned when people make sudden & extreme 180 degree transitions in their life scripts, especially when those same people have been warning me about making impulsive decisions! i never thought that the recent situation was particularly due to societal pressures, really (although cultural programming is strong and pervasive, and that question bears looking into further)... but after last night's discussion, it actually seems like the biological forces were *much* more of an issue than we had previously considered.

and yeah... i think that some of the more fortunate from the the younger side of our generation are definitely leagues ahead of where we were at their age, too... power to the youth in this Aeon of Horus!