Semantic Quibble, or Structural Difference: ssk & k2tog tbl

[lwood]

I recently finished the Rowan Birch pattern in Hand Maiden Sea Silk (Cornflower colorway), and it's just gorgeous. The pattern is not particularly complicated, but it had two terminology features that threw me

Comments

[xtina1001]

This website has a great display of different types of decreases,
http://www.knittinghelp.com/knitting/basic_techniques/decrease.php

If you normally don't knit through the back loop to begin with, k2tog tbl will create a twisted stitch, ssk or s1k1psso will create an untwisted left leaning decrease.

[emmacrew]

Exactly. And if you *do* knit with a different stitch mount (as in combined knitting), you need to manipulate the stitches to not get a twist on your *right* leaning decreases, while the left leaning version you'd just insert the needle through two stitches instead of one in your usual manner.

[alison_in_oh]

It probably doesn't make much aesthetic difference in lace. But, when in doubt, swatch! Work up some stockinette in worsted weight and throw some decreases into it, looking carefully at where the yarn runs in each case as well as how the overall fabric looks. You'll see a difference I think.

Speaking of twisting stitches, slip purlwise, k2tog, psso will give you a centered double decrease with a twisted top stitch, not a left-leaning double dec, unless my imagination deceives me!

[djinnj]

They are actually different and will behave and look differently in context (unlike a ssk vs a sl1 knitwise, k1, psso). How much difference depends largely on the type of yarn used and the gauge they're worked up in. It might not be noticeable at all in one project, but be very noticeable in another. I find a k3tog lies differently from a sl1, k2tog, psso, and I imagine that a k3tog tbl would be even more different. And while it might not "pop" from the fabric at all if worked at a very loose gauge in very fine yarn, it might if worked at a "normal" gauge in a heavier yarn. It's not just surface appearance which matters, but the underlying structure which will influence drape, stretch, etc. A lot of the time, though, it's a very subtle difference. And if it doesn't bother you, I'd say just swap in whichever you prefer

[alunissage]

I'm quite picky about my decreases too. I'm finally finishing up my lace wedding shawl (seven months after the wedding...) and while it's not a spectacularly innovative pattern, when I put it together I ended up with at least three kinds of double decreases and two of each single decrease. I used k2tog tbl for one side near the selvage, so on the other I slipped two stitches individually knitwise, returned them to the needle purlwise, and k2tog to get a similarly twisted decrease. I should mention, though, that this wasn't necessarily successful in terms of tension, though that may be more a product of the yarn (Tilli Tomas Pure and Simple) and the context -- knitting together a st and a yo right next to the selvage, which was then slipped on the WS -- the twisted st in the decrease tended to completely "lock" the slipped st so it was really work to pull at it if it was too small. Well, I won't be doing that on selvages again

[spoiled_saint]

As far as I can tell, in K2TOG TBL, as long as you fix the twisting of the resulting stitch it's a perfect, easier, copy of SSK. I prefer to use it as well. I just twist the stitch right away after decreasing, and it works fine.

As far as decreasing 3 into 1 - it doesn't work the same.

[djinnj]

I'm interested to know why your new stitch twists since a k2tog tbl doesn't result in the new stitch being twisted on the needle, it results in the 2 decreased stitches being twisted. It's not the same as a ssk, which is worked by slipping each stitch knitwise (thus changing their orientation but not their order) and then knitting them together.

[esmerel]

Huh! Now, see, mine doesn't twist either.

NOW I see the difference, as I think about it. I usually use sl1,k1,psso, instead of ssk, and I just could not see a difference. Except that when I do the sl1 for this, I always slip knitwise instead of purlwise, and that means the stitch should look the same. But yeah, if I were to do a k2tbl, that would look different.

I've learned something today, YAY.

[djinnj]

yeah, a ssk and a sl1, k1, psso are identical in result (in both, the slipping is supposed to be knitwise), they're just worked differently. Everything else mentioned so far actually has a definite (if small) difference, though.

[applefaerie]

hmmm, yes and no. it really depends on the needles and yarn