I cried manly tears.

[acenoctali]

TORADORA IS OVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER T___________T

The final episode of the anime has aired in Japan early morning of yesterday, heck you could be sure I haven't missed this. And this episode was a perfect closure for this EXCELLENT anime.

I enjoyed Toradora through and through, and it makes me a bit sad it's now over. I'm not a fan of anime

Comments

[thaao]

No, I meant I hate using the clauses as rules, because I don't think evasion is very cheap or anything. You can get around spamming evasion moves and sleep moves, it's just that people don't want to incorporate that into their strategies. I think the annoyance of stupid stuff in battle frontier really helped people hate evasive moves though.

But as a defensive player, I like status effects and evasion buffs. You can use them strategically without just spamming them, and I think it's more than legit strategy. And that's why I'm glad official tourneys never turn on sleep/evasion clauses and it's just something for online fan community that I'm not a part of anyway.

And I like 4v4 over 6v6, too, but often I come up with strategies that work a lot better in 6v6. But I also like 4v4 where you bring 6 and choose 4 while previewing the opponent's 6.

I also would never judge a move by its sexuality. I'm sure they already feel left out from the Pokemon world because no one likes evasion moves, but to further alienate them because of their sexuality is just cruel. You might as well tell them they're not moves at all and delete them from the game. No one will miss them because they're not REAL moves.

Except me who likes them. But I'm not a real person either. So I guess us non-humans and non-moves stick together or something.

[acenoctali]

My oh my. First and foremost, when I said "gay", it was as an expression. I REALLY didn't meant to offend neither you or anyone else. I'm sincerely sorry if you were, Marcus. T____T

Seriously, if there were better ways to battle evasion than weak Aerial Ace, Swift and Shockwave, I wouldn't be against it. But as it is, using evasion make battles stall wars and too much luck reliant, which IMO is detrimental to the fun of the game.

And big tournaments can inforce those rules. See for example the G4 tournament, which is the closest thing for an official competitive tournament in France we have :

SONT INTERDITS D'UTILISATION AU SEIN DE LA COUPE G4.5
TOUTE UTILISATION DES PRÉSENTS POKéMON EST PASSIBLE DE DISQUALIFICATION IMMÉDIATE.

(ARE FORBIDDEN TO USE INSIDE THE G4.5 CUP
ANY USE OF THESE FOLLOWING POKEMON IS LIABLE TO DISQUALIFICATION

[...]

• Les objets suivants : (The following items)
Bandeau (Focus Band)
Croc rasoir (Razor Fang)
Encens doux (Lax Incens)
Griffe rasoir (Razor Claw)
Lentilscope (Scope Lens)
Poudreclaire (Bright Powder)
Roche royale (King's Rock)
Vive griffe (Quick Claw)

• Les capacités suivantes : (The following moves)
Abîme (Fissure)
Empal'Korne (Horn Drill)
Glaciation (Sheer Cold)
Guillotine (Guillotine)
Lilliput (Minimize)
Reflet (Double Team)

ACTIONS INTERDITES EN MATCH
SOUS PEINE DE DISQUALIFICATION IMMÉDIATE

(ACTIONS FORBIDDEN IN MATCH
UNDER IMMEDIATE DISQUALIFICATION)

[...]

• Deux Pokémon ou plus par équipe ne peuvent être SOM (endormis) et/ou GEL (gelés), selon les Clauses de Sommeil ( Sleep Clause ) et de Congélation ( Freeze Clause ) du jeu vidéo Pokémon.
NOTE : Les attaques de soin par endormissement comme Repos ne comptent pas comme un endormissement. Par exemple, si Ronflex™ fait Repos et que l'adversaire l'échange pour Artikodin™, il est possible d'endormir Artikodin™.

(Two Pokémon or more per team can't be put to Sleep and/or Frozen, under the Sleep and Freeze Clauses of the Pokémon video game.
NOTE : Healing moves using Sleep like Rest don't count as a Sleep. For example, if Ronflex uses Rest and the opponent switches to Artikuno, it's possible to put Artikuno to Sleep.)

• Les capacités occasionnant des KO en un coup (Glaciation, Abîme, Empal'korne et Guillotine) sont strictement interdites d'utilisation , même si une équipe comporte un ou plusieurs Pokémon connaissant ces capacités. Si un Pokémon utilise Métronome ou toute autre capacité déclenchant des capacités aléatoires et qui déclencherait une capacité de KO en un coup, cela n'a pas de conséquences sur le déroulement du match.

(Moves dealing OHKO - Sheer Cold, Fissure, Horn Drill, and Guillotine) are strictly forbidden of use, even if a team has one or more Pokémon able to use those moves. If a Pokémon uses Metronome or any other similar move triggering random moves and thus triggering a OHKO move, this won't have any consequences on the developpement of the match).

So yeah.

[acenoctali]

Kay, I checked Wikitionnary just to be sure.

It's indeed used as an expression to say something is lame, just as I thought. But what I didn't knew is that it could be THAT offensive. Serious misused term I used indeed. :/

I'll make sure to never use it again. Again, sorry, Marcus. :(

[thaao]

Yeah, it's become somewhat common to use it like that. In fact maybe way too common. But it's still a usage derived from the fact that gays are unacceptable and bad, so even if it's used in peace, the fact that it's being used at all proves that I'm not accepted as a normal human, but a broken or bad one or something.

For a while people were also using the word 'jewish' in the same way, especially where I live... but I think it didn't stick because people realized it was too offensive or something??

But um, I was already in a pretty bad mood and I was really tired so I'm sorry for attacking you like that :( I know you didn't mean anything by it and I know you would never say anything malicious like that. Sooo I should not have said what I said, or at least in the way I said it.

It's not that I was really upset with you but rather upset that we have to live in a world where we have slangs like that. I mean throughout history there have always been slangs that alienate people whether it's because of ethnicity, religion, occupation, health condition, etc.

And yeah I took it out on you. So I am really sorry :(

[acenoctali]

Nah, it's fine, don't worry. :)

[thaao]

Hmm. Well, at least here in official US tournaments the rules are a lot less restrictive. And I mean like... the official Nintendo ones. They also carry over to a 'world finals' (which is usually just US and Japan) and those tend to have the same rules , so I'm guessing Japan doesn't use those rules too officially either?

They might've added some clauses to the official set though... I didn't go to the last official tournament, but the one before that, I was able to use brightpowder (ended up not really helping me though XD) and evasion moves were allowed. Sleep clause I think was on, though, now that I think about it, but I still personally don't like it.

OHKO moves were allowed, but you were not allowed to use self-KO moves if you were the last Pokemon.

The Rest note on the sleep clause also is a pain. If you are using sleep moves on the opponent, but they also use rest, sometimes you can forget if they are asleep because of your move or because of rest, especially when it's going fast and you both tried for that in the same turn. So you could end up wasting moves or breaking rules or something :\

As for stall wars, IDK, most of my strategies revolve around waiting. I really like poison, confusion, leech seed, wrap, etc. I've defeated a lv 100 Rayquaza using a lv 82 Shuckle simply with the move Wrap. It certainly took forever, but in the end Shuckle was victorious.

And yeah, you are right about there not being enough ways to fight evasion, I guess. It does get annoying when it's about luck. But if you consider that both players can use it it's somewhat fair -- I mean in the end there's still a lot of luck in the game... it's just... more tedious and slow luck with evasion moves. But there are also moves like Lock On. Plus there's the force of some strong defense/walls, which can cause evasion-users to be forced to switch out.

Usually wasting turns on spamming evasion moves leaves you weak in a lot of other areas. It also wastes a move slot, so you have one less chance of offense or additional defense on that monster.

I also don't really like species clause, but I def understand it. But I'd really like to have two Probopasses or two Ludicolos on a team XD

[acenoctali]

On a 2006 USA official tournament rules set, I read that Sleep Clause and Freeze Clause, as well as Explosion and Destiny Bond Clause were active. But no word about Evasion.

But on the 2008 edition, Sleep and Freeze Clauses were apparently removed as well.

Now, the 2009 editions rules haven't been released yet. But I guess they won't change them too much.

But the problem with stall wars and official tournaments, is that Nintendo deliberately chose the 2 vs 2 with 4 Pokémon format because they WANTED the matches to be the shortest possible, considering there's a lot of players in tournaments. So I find this quite contradictory. :/

About Lock-On, how many Pokémon can learn it ? 5 fully evolved at most ? Not a big help IMO. :/ Haze is not much better placed, and as for Roar, that won't help you if the evasion-using opponent Pokémon is the last one to beat.

I do not mind defensive strategies, it's a perfectly valid way to play. Hey, there's a lot of players using Toxic, Leech Seed and Calm Mind, and without evasion, for instance. But if it's through mostly luck-based, without any real way to counter it, I'd say that's broken and not fun. :/

[thaao]

I've never really ran into a problem with it being too luck-based and no way to counter it. Certainly times in which my team was inferior and couldn't counter because they were poorly designed, but there area always big flaws in evasion-based strategies. It's good to use evasion moves sparingly when they help you a little, but spamming them usually leaves you wide open for something else, depending on the team.

The Nintendo tournaments do have 4v4 double battles, but they're also timed. After 5 or 10 minutes, the battle ends, and the player with the highest % of their total HP is the winner. That's why you can't really rely on evasion moves anyway -- you have to be dealing damage in there. That's why defensive strategies that are focused on draining the opponent and keeping your own HP high that can use evasion now and then to boost the strategy are ideal for defensive players like me, and having an evasion clause kindof ruins a large bit of potential strategy and makes everyone kinda play the same :\ I think the game is a lot more diverse without so many clauses set.

I think that they just need to make a move that punishes evasion moves or something. Like some kind of move that can ensure accuracy like Lock On, but one that almost every Pokemon can learn (there are other universal moves like Protect, so why not some kind of 'concentration' move that cancels all evasion buffs and increases your own accuracy drastically on the next turn? It could have some side effect like lowering your defenses one step as well to 'balance' it, and give it 5 or 10 PP...)

But yeah, IDK, I agree that there are some cases where evasion moves are a HUGE pain in the ass, and people use them in really annoying ways if they're allowed, but I think that they can really be strategic and add a good level of fun if used well, and banning them makes me sad :(

I don't have any good Pokemon trained, but when I get Platinum, I'm going to start working on training some really awesome teams and filling the Pokedex, so maybe when that time comes around I'll battle you :) I have some fun strategies I want to try out :) And I want to rework my team I took to seminationals back in RuSa days. It doesn't work so well with the DP rules, but I'd like to come up with a similar strategy for DPP :D

[acenoctali]

You nailed it indeed. It's both a combination of lack of effective ways to counter / punish evasion moves, and players spamming mindlessly evasion moves when they're allowed, which is the real problem.

(And that's why I think Evasion moves shouldn't be used in tournaments. As it is, it's too broken, and could lead everyone to only use that strategy, making the game stale and making it lose its attractiveness.)

I missed the part wher the battles are times in tournaments. Thanks for reminding me that.

It would be a real pleasure to have a battle with you, when you'll be ready. Just tell me when that'll be the case. ;)

And, oh, if, when we'll battle, you prefer a 2 vs 2 with 4 Pokés instead of 6, that's very fine by me. The fact about my new team, is that it's a beta only because I'm really testing 2 Pokés inside the 6 : the core of the team is formed by 4 Pokés, and could IMO hold their own in a 4 vs 4 battle. :)

[thaao]

Yeah, I like to play 4v4 better, but I train 6v6 teams as well. I only like to play Double Battle though (Single Battle is really boring, IMO, and I think the Diamond/Pearl rules were MADE for Double Battle. It's so much more fun and strategic :D)

I also have teams in which there is a 4v4 'core' and an additional 2-poke support. I also like having a 6v6 team but being forced to choose 4 based on what you think your opponent might do. I think it's just another level of fun strategy (that's why I really like playing on Battle Revolution online -- you bring your team of 6 and then get to preview your opponent's team by seeing little portraits of their 6, then must choose 4) :)

IDK when I'll be getting Platinum. My friend might buy it for me, but if not, it probably won't be for a LONG time. I need to find a job and then I need to get some important things for my study or work like a laptop and also I have to pay off my $400-some credit card debt, and in 5-6 months I will start being billed for my $100,000 student loan debt. Heh.

So IDK when I'll be getting Platinum... maybe I should just start training some stuff on Dia/Per XD

[acenoctali]

I SO agree with you on the Single / Double bit. I don't understand why Doubles are so shunned by competitive players. If anything, IMO, it's Doubles which is the most strategic and most fun of the two formats.

I've seen lots of Youtube battle vids of Pokémon Battle Revolution, and indeed, the fact you can see your opponent's team is a nice strategy factor. :)

It's okay about Platinum, don't worry. You must focus on your debts first, they aren't funny at all indeed, and I feel for you :(