Ethics, modern Pagans, and Killing: Emotional and spiritual dichotomies...
Ok, looking for a bit of perspective here. Well, perhaps different perspectives might be more accurate.
This begins in my last journal entry (which I cross posted onto http://community.livejournal.com/unnaturalpagans/profile ). Check it there to follow some of the comments, Type your cut contNew here to the whole LJ thing, but thought I might hit the ground running here with the formative beginnings (which means discussion) of a workshop I've been asked to create for my local community.
My path is most definitely NOT Wiccan, nor any kind of new age "neopagan" (gods, I hate that term...but that's a different topic) "eclectic". My path is fairly shamanic in nature, and, as some would say, of a slightly more "left-handed" variety. My personal interpretation (or shortening) of "Men's and Women's Mysteries", while basically accurate, is found by many Wiccans (or eclectic wiccans) to be somewhat "offensive". I do, however, desire for all of my students to put some serious effort into their shadow work, and am willing to go to some "interesting" places to help them deal their issues. No, I don't agree with the twits who would try to have you deal with your shadow self via a short "guided meditation or workshop" where you look at your anger/shame/fear/anguish and say "I see you and I forgive you/myself" and that's supposed to be the end of it. Really dealing with ones issues, the "shadow work", is NEVER that bloody simple.
So, after our local Samhain festival was finished the other weekend, it was suggested that I lead "Men's Mysteries" next year with a rather...touchy..subject:
How does one reconcile the moral dichotomy of most modern pagans and wiccans ideas that "All life is Sacred" when faced with the burden of having to act otherwise because honor, or duty has required it? How does one who is wiccan justify having taken a life (or lives) while in service to their country during war? Or during the course of duty as a member of Law Enforcement? Or when those near you have died due to your mistakes or inaction (or your misplaced blame)?
I mean, it's easy enough to shuffle it off with tepid little platitudes like "it doesn't count in service to country/ceasar", "that's a bit of shadow work you're going to have to reconcile for yourself", "that's in the past, god/dess forgives you..now focus on the rede or the general sacredness of life". Or any of a hundred others. Even the Christians don't usually have a good answer to this beyond "render unto ceasar/Christ forgives all". And, IMHO, these are all crap. I've had students that have "these stains on their souls" , and none of these platitudes would even come close to working. Even amongst those wiccans that follow the variant of the rede that adds "Lest in self defence it be", there still seems to be that major stumbling block regarding the sacredness of Life. I've also run in Asatru and druids that still have this "stumbling block".
It seems to me that a step towards this reconciliation is a slight adjustment to their worldview. "Every life is Sacred, but no more so than every Death." It may be that the gods alone can set the time of any mans death, that being in their perview alone, but who is to say that any one of us cannot be the tools by which they act? Yet, a part of me can't help but think that even this is just another of those "worthless platitudes".
Or is it not even a matter of "conventional" versus "non-conventional" ethics? Could it be more closely related to that deeply ingrained idea that taking anothers life is simply *wrong*. That little aspect that some writers or shows or movies will hint at when someone becomes physically, mentally, and/or emotionally sick after taking their first or even second life? Could it be that "switch" that some psychologists and councelors encounter when dealing with a cop that just shot someone dead in the line of duty? Or that bit of "careful observation" that military snipers undergo after their initial "engagements"?
I know shadow work, at least the kind that actually deals with peoples demons with more than just lipservice, is different from person to person. I know that while a counselor might "specialize" in these kinds of cases, no two patients will ever have the same experience, let alone the same counseling tasks. But, I also know that there are some "techniques" which do work on generalized basis.
I know, I've asked more questions than I've answered here. But as I said, I'm just beginning to build this into a (hopefully) very useful tool for delving into what many would consider "men's mysteries".
I very much want your ideas and comments. If not directly with this post, then as a private message with relevant parts cut/pasted. I would very much like to like to see this develop and maybe even become a tool that gets used by priests, priestesses, and pagan clergy whenever this particular "issue" comes up.
Needless to say, this is only Part 1 of this particular post....others will follow as the year, and the workshop, develop.
So, that established, I'm wanting to bounce ideas around here as well.
At the very first of it, let me reiterate that while I am wanting to address this issue in a workshop, I do fully understand that this, like any other bit of shadow work/counseling, will merely be the first steps in a much longer process. I'm just wanting to get the ball rolling by addressing a subject that is mostly ignored or minimized in most "pagan" publications and groups.
Then there's the issue of needing to clarify the differences between "intentional" and accidental murder, and possibly the need to separate them as completely different beasts despite the emotional and spiritual similarities. Intentional murder covering everything from a soldier at war, or a cop in the line of duty, to extremes in defending home, friends or family from harm. Accidental would (I think) be split into 2 further categories: Blame and Blameless. Blame accidents would be such things as DUI related accidents, playing around with loaded guns, intentionally shorting or ignoring safety precautions in dangerous environs (ie construction). Blameless accidents would cover such things as weather related traffic accidents, or even when a doctor or medic fails to save a life. True, all of these situations carry different implications when confronted with ethics systems based on "Life is Sacred", but it could be argued that the mental and emotional (and spiritual) turmoil, let alone the relevant dichotomies, are similar enough to each other as to make no difference.
I've gotten a number of responses ranging from completely worthless to the thought provoking. That's where y'all come in. Different perspectives both to the originating philosophical dichotomy in relation to the life changing event, as well as how to begin the counselors process of significantly reconciling the two.
It's been suggested that perhaps the Baghavad Gita would cover these. The problem there is in the significant cultural and philosophical differences with our modern society. I can see that to some extent the idea the concepts of the old caste system and specific dharma guiding peoples lives could be said to overlap in a sense with modern society. Mind you, the similarity is mainly evident if you consider different times/phases of life as equating to specific castes. For example, Little Johnny graduates high school and becomes a marine who gets shipped off to war. After some time of service, Johnny gets out of the Marines, goes to college, and eventually becomes medical doctor. If you consider each phase of Johnny's life (Soldier, Scholar, Doctor) as a separate "caste" with it's own specific dharma. It is the next stage in the equation that really doesn't fit, however. The Gita would maintain that each dharma should be carried out with full zeal and without emotional ties, for one is simply obeying the natural order of their position. Yet, in modern society, we tend to have certain "moral presets", regardless of our individual ethics, well established before we ever get near the time we choose career or temporary profession.
For some reason, I thinking there is a correlation there to the end result of counseling I am seeking to create...but it is eluding me currently. So, I turn here for some more analytical ideas, as well as some that might take a completely different tact.
All assistance here is greatly appreciated.
Chris / Grynner
That Memphis Guy
This begins in my last journal entry (which I cross posted onto http://community.livejournal.com/unnaturalpagans/profile ). Check it there to follow some of the comments, Type your cut contNew here to the whole LJ thing, but thought I might hit the ground running here with the formative beginnings (which means discussion) of a workshop I've been asked to create for my local community.
My path is most definitely NOT Wiccan, nor any kind of new age "neopagan" (gods, I hate that term...but that's a different topic) "eclectic". My path is fairly shamanic in nature, and, as some would say, of a slightly more "left-handed" variety. My personal interpretation (or shortening) of "Men's and Women's Mysteries", while basically accurate, is found by many Wiccans (or eclectic wiccans) to be somewhat "offensive". I do, however, desire for all of my students to put some serious effort into their shadow work, and am willing to go to some "interesting" places to help them deal their issues. No, I don't agree with the twits who would try to have you deal with your shadow self via a short "guided meditation or workshop" where you look at your anger/shame/fear/anguish and say "I see you and I forgive you/myself" and that's supposed to be the end of it. Really dealing with ones issues, the "shadow work", is NEVER that bloody simple.
So, after our local Samhain festival was finished the other weekend, it was suggested that I lead "Men's Mysteries" next year with a rather...touchy..subject:
How does one reconcile the moral dichotomy of most modern pagans and wiccans ideas that "All life is Sacred" when faced with the burden of having to act otherwise because honor, or duty has required it? How does one who is wiccan justify having taken a life (or lives) while in service to their country during war? Or during the course of duty as a member of Law Enforcement? Or when those near you have died due to your mistakes or inaction (or your misplaced blame)?
I mean, it's easy enough to shuffle it off with tepid little platitudes like "it doesn't count in service to country/ceasar", "that's a bit of shadow work you're going to have to reconcile for yourself", "that's in the past, god/dess forgives you..now focus on the rede or the general sacredness of life". Or any of a hundred others. Even the Christians don't usually have a good answer to this beyond "render unto ceasar/Christ forgives all". And, IMHO, these are all crap. I've had students that have "these stains on their souls" , and none of these platitudes would even come close to working. Even amongst those wiccans that follow the variant of the rede that adds "Lest in self defence it be", there still seems to be that major stumbling block regarding the sacredness of Life. I've also run in Asatru and druids that still have this "stumbling block".
It seems to me that a step towards this reconciliation is a slight adjustment to their worldview. "Every life is Sacred, but no more so than every Death." It may be that the gods alone can set the time of any mans death, that being in their perview alone, but who is to say that any one of us cannot be the tools by which they act? Yet, a part of me can't help but think that even this is just another of those "worthless platitudes".
Or is it not even a matter of "conventional" versus "non-conventional" ethics? Could it be more closely related to that deeply ingrained idea that taking anothers life is simply *wrong*. That little aspect that some writers or shows or movies will hint at when someone becomes physically, mentally, and/or emotionally sick after taking their first or even second life? Could it be that "switch" that some psychologists and councelors encounter when dealing with a cop that just shot someone dead in the line of duty? Or that bit of "careful observation" that military snipers undergo after their initial "engagements"?
I know shadow work, at least the kind that actually deals with peoples demons with more than just lipservice, is different from person to person. I know that while a counselor might "specialize" in these kinds of cases, no two patients will ever have the same experience, let alone the same counseling tasks. But, I also know that there are some "techniques" which do work on generalized basis.
I know, I've asked more questions than I've answered here. But as I said, I'm just beginning to build this into a (hopefully) very useful tool for delving into what many would consider "men's mysteries".
I very much want your ideas and comments. If not directly with this post, then as a private message with relevant parts cut/pasted. I would very much like to like to see this develop and maybe even become a tool that gets used by priests, priestesses, and pagan clergy whenever this particular "issue" comes up.
Needless to say, this is only Part 1 of this particular post....others will follow as the year, and the workshop, develop.
So, that established, I'm wanting to bounce ideas around here as well.
At the very first of it, let me reiterate that while I am wanting to address this issue in a workshop, I do fully understand that this, like any other bit of shadow work/counseling, will merely be the first steps in a much longer process. I'm just wanting to get the ball rolling by addressing a subject that is mostly ignored or minimized in most "pagan" publications and groups.
Then there's the issue of needing to clarify the differences between "intentional" and accidental murder, and possibly the need to separate them as completely different beasts despite the emotional and spiritual similarities. Intentional murder covering everything from a soldier at war, or a cop in the line of duty, to extremes in defending home, friends or family from harm. Accidental would (I think) be split into 2 further categories: Blame and Blameless. Blame accidents would be such things as DUI related accidents, playing around with loaded guns, intentionally shorting or ignoring safety precautions in dangerous environs (ie construction). Blameless accidents would cover such things as weather related traffic accidents, or even when a doctor or medic fails to save a life. True, all of these situations carry different implications when confronted with ethics systems based on "Life is Sacred", but it could be argued that the mental and emotional (and spiritual) turmoil, let alone the relevant dichotomies, are similar enough to each other as to make no difference.
I've gotten a number of responses ranging from completely worthless to the thought provoking. That's where y'all come in. Different perspectives both to the originating philosophical dichotomy in relation to the life changing event, as well as how to begin the counselors process of significantly reconciling the two.
It's been suggested that perhaps the Baghavad Gita would cover these. The problem there is in the significant cultural and philosophical differences with our modern society. I can see that to some extent the idea the concepts of the old caste system and specific dharma guiding peoples lives could be said to overlap in a sense with modern society. Mind you, the similarity is mainly evident if you consider different times/phases of life as equating to specific castes. For example, Little Johnny graduates high school and becomes a marine who gets shipped off to war. After some time of service, Johnny gets out of the Marines, goes to college, and eventually becomes medical doctor. If you consider each phase of Johnny's life (Soldier, Scholar, Doctor) as a separate "caste" with it's own specific dharma. It is the next stage in the equation that really doesn't fit, however. The Gita would maintain that each dharma should be carried out with full zeal and without emotional ties, for one is simply obeying the natural order of their position. Yet, in modern society, we tend to have certain "moral presets", regardless of our individual ethics, well established before we ever get near the time we choose career or temporary profession.
For some reason, I thinking there is a correlation there to the end result of counseling I am seeking to create...but it is eluding me currently. So, I turn here for some more analytical ideas, as well as some that might take a completely different tact.
All assistance here is greatly appreciated.
Chris / Grynner
That Memphis Guy