[Multilingual Monday] Linguistic purism, fake etymologies, minority languages

[aadroma]

Because it's the start of Eurovision season, I am often found on the weekend watching webcasts of various countries' selections live via the internet -- even if I can't understand it! This week I was watching a webcast from Iceland and realised how little Icelandic I understand! Though it is related to other Scandanavian languages, several

Comments

[kevynjacobs]

Norwegian's "telefon" and "elektrisitet" are English loanwords? I thought they were from Latin/Greek.

The ancient Greek root word, elektron, means “amber" -- so the Iceland calque makes sense.

Loan words are fun!

[dodgingwndshlds]

Loan words can have roots or origins in other languages. They are still classified as "loaned" from the language of direct contact. Unless "elektisitet" and "telefon" can be shown to have come from direct contact of Greek or Latin and Icelandic as opposed to contact with English, they would be correctly labeled as loaned from English. This is because while the roots of the loaned word may be Greek or Latin, the pronunciation, modern definitions, and usage of the word "electricity" is decidedly English and the Icelandic word comes from contact with the phonetics and contextual meanings of that English word and not the Greek or Latin root.

Re: Loan words are fun!

[kevynjacobs]

It's the "decidedly English" English part I'm questioning. I can see "Telephone" as being an English loanword, since the object was invented in North America, and the word coined in English. But "Electricity?" Is it verifiable that the word comes from English?

Re: Loan words are fun!

[dodgingwndshlds]

To be fair, the answer depends of which camp of linguistics you subscribe to. Sociolinguists (my camp... Go team, go!) would say yes, absolutely English. Theoretical linguists might argue roots... Especially since the word at one time in the comparatively recent past existed as primarily scientific jargon. (Before it was common to have control of electricity, it wouldn't have been part of the vernacular, I would think. Though I can't quantify that... It's an educated guess.)

Re: Loan words are fun!

[kevynjacobs]

So it seems that, to answer this question, we need to know when the New Latin term "electricus" entered the Norwegian language. It would have to be post-1600, because that's when Englishman William Gilbert coined the term (Wikipedia). However, even though the term did originate with an Englishman, it was at the time New Latin scientific jargon, and only entered the English language much later -- the OED lists the first known English use in 1646, so it appears that it took over a generation for the word to actually become a loanword into English.

German Otto von Guericke invented the first electrostatic generator, the "Elektrisiermaschine," around 1663.
It seems reasonable to assume that he was working with the Latin jargon term at that point. It's doubtful that scientists working at the time were using the English word, but it is possible.

This also would suggest that oddcellist's postulation, that "elektrisitet" entered Norwegian through German is possible as well

Re: Loan words are fun!

[kevynjacobs]

In his original post, Regev implied that the Norwegian word "elektrisitet" was an English loanword, and I was questioning that. That's the only significance.

As he pointed out, the Icelandic word for electricity, "rafmagn," didn't come from English. It literally means "amber power," and is a calque -- a literal translation -- of the Neo-Latin "electricus," which means "amber-like." (The Ancient Greek root word, "elektron," means "amber.") So the Icelandic word etymology appears to have been Greek -> Neo-Latin -> Icelandic.

Re: Loan words are fun!

[aadroma]

The word "electricity" seems to have been coined initially in English, as the etymological sources I find seem to claim it as a unique coining and not from another language in the 1600s. Now where it ENTERED Norwegian is another question -- it very well might have entered through German (which was a language of science not all that long ago), but that's open to debate.

So shall we just say it came from a clearly non-Scandanavian source and be done with it? :: laugh ::

Re: Loan words are fun!

[oddcellist]

With the usual grain of salt, Wikipedia cites that an English scientist coined the neo-Latin term electricus around 1600, and the OED gives a first English citation for 'electricity' in 1646.

That said, I'm not too sure about the direct route of transmission; I can't say about "decidedly English," but it seems just as likely to me for transmission to have come via either German or possibly even Low German (thanks to residual influence from the Hanse)? I'm not an expert on the region/period, though.

Re: Loan words are fun!

[kevynjacobs]

Yes, the German word, "Elektrizität" *may* be the source of the Norwegian word "elektrisitet" -- I'm still digging for a definitive reference source...