Emma you are wrong. This country was founded on the Bible and it's teachings. Everybody quotes from the Constitution, which is the law giving document of our country, but what about the Declaration of Independence? When reading about or talking about how our country was founded you can't mention one without the other. They go hand in hand. To leave one out is to say that part of our history doesn't matter anymore. And the Declaration of Independence is based on Biblical teachings, as Nicole quoted from in the second paragraph, but I quote the from first. The first paragraph written about our country, before the Constitution was written.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
i didnt phrase what i meant to say right, my bad. but we have freedom of religion so you dont have to worhip the constitution's god. and not every single person in our government is a christian,let alone the same religion. maybe i just dont get what youre saying...is it that the government shouldnt make it legal because its againt your religion, or the nations religion that actually isnt the nations religion, or is it that your homophobic? im not sure i really get your point. and you said before that if you disagree on gay marriage becasue it is againt the bible, then you disagree with everything? (this is exactly what you said: marriage is about love, and if you don't agree with the bible on this topic then you aren't going to agree with the bible on anything.) what?! first of all, i dont think anyone disagreed that marriage was about love. but thats not the point. im sorry, but what about all the poeple who believe in predestination, or in free will? if their view is contridicting yours, are they going against your bible, and your god? babies dying and going to heaven or going to hell? circumcision! outdated law, but people still do it. all these things that no one really knows what the right answer is, if their idea of it is against yours do they automatically go to hell? i dont care if im wrong! if your god and your bible is being so hateful and discriminatory to a group of people, i want no part of it! jews were persecuted, and then they ran away, for better treatement from a man who was basically "thier god." LET MY PEOPLE GO! what if i was a lesbian? you would tell me that i could never be happy in my life, i would instead have to live a life or guilt becasue i wasnt going with what you say? if i were a lesbian, i wouldnt want to get married to a man, i would run away and get married to some woman, like amanda or something! what if we got married? do you even know any gay people? they dont choose a life that would be filled with hard times and ridiculefor loving someone else. let gay people be married for thier happiness! who are we to interject? people of different races and religions get married all the time! i just think that they should be allowed happiness.
emma - do you know why religous freedom was written into the Consitution - which is meant to be read with the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights - no document was meant to be read without the other two - do you know? It was because every non-Anglican in England was being persecuted, and they could not practice their faith. The freedom of religion the forefathers had in mind was freedom to practive any Christian faith without fear of persecution. Since the Enlightenment, this has been twisted over and over again. They're rolling in their graves!!
And why do you think this is about religion? It's about God - you know all this already!! You know he defined love in 1 John, as Jay quoted above, and you know he defined marriage, from Genesis 2, also above. And why are you twisting what Jay said and taking it out of context? Here's what he said:
"marriage is about love, and if you don't agree with the bible on this topic then you aren't going to agree with the bible on anything. because the bible clearly states what love is." copied and pasted straight from him. "this topic" is love and marriage, and about the fact that GOD IS LOVE - not gay marriage, and then you continue on to compare this debate to theological debates such as predestination and such? It is not a sin to have questions about things God was not clear about in his word (homosexuality not being one of them). Predestination is not salvation-specific, and therefore you caanot compare the two discussions. And from there to comparing proponents of gay marriage to the Israelites fleeing Egyptian rule? You're brighter than that. You clearly didn't spend time reading and weighing anything either of us has said.
jay wanted to add this, too... Tomatojay0: she says she hates people making opions about her based on her lj, but then see calls me a homophobe based on what i post
and i want to add - you respond as if you only skim our postings, while I get up early and do research before I respond to yours, after thoroughly reading them and weighing your view and the research - we both have shown you respect through all of this.
btw - if you told me you were a lesbian, here's what I might say: "I don't condone the action, but I don;t condemn you - not my right as a person that already stands condemned without the blood of Christ. " But, yeah, you would not be able to experience pure godly joy, the best high there is (and I've had a lot of high's).
Here's the last thing Jay and I want to say - and this is for both you and amanda, and Jay and I have both discussed this at length, and he wants you to know its from him as much as it is from me. You openly complain about church, about the people there, about hi-league and about leadership and about how you feel like everyone is judging you. But they aren't judging you all the time, we aren't right now. we are just judging your actions based on what the bible says, not you as a person. But it you still feel that way, then stop going. If you want nothing to do with God - which is evident - stop putting on the face and going. If you want to just "be yourself", go do that.
But we're done. It hurts tremendously to see people who once looked up to you slam doors in your face, but we have to be done. It's Paul's teaching. We have tried to talk with you - others have done what they saw fit, and so now we're done. We know you won't understand that pain, but hopefully someday this will happen to you, and you will understand how it feels to be where we are.
And emma, we'll allow you to have the last word in all this - you probably would say something anyway after this post because we don't feel like we have to have it. So go ahead.
Good-bye
and God bless - if you're anywhere near where I was in high school, you'll need it by the wheel-barrow.
first things first, i did not call jay homophobic. i was asking himwhat his point was, or if he didnt have one and was homophobic, i didnt and still dont know if he is, it was a question. and now chronologically.
i do not think that forefathers only wnated freedom for christians, and if they did only want that, which it sounds like thats what youre saying, then they are doing the exact same thing that caused them to screw england and come to ameria. they are rolling in their graves because everyone gets religious freedom? god, thats awful.
stop telling me im bright. i hate it when people do that, its so demeaning to say theat youre not doing what youre capable of, when others dont even know. but i dont even know what youre talking about either so done with that one. and i was just saying that jay said you dont agree with one thing you dont agree with everything. i find that faulty.
didnt call a homophobe, only asked if he was...already addressed.
sometimes i do only skim becasue therye boring to me, i go with what i know and what ive learned blah blah blah.
you say that like you think i actually am a lesbian, all that cra love the sinner hate the sin. and good for you that you have highs all right, that helps me zero, and its not my buisness either, highs or lows.
yes i hate church, i go to see my friends, i dont care if i say that, or maybe i am just saying all of this becasue i like conflict or maybe i just like playing devils advocate. and i do NOT put on the face i am very offended by that becasue i never go around saying I AM AN EXCELLENT CHRISTIAN! thats so dumb anyways, bragging about how good it is for you when othe people go through shit and im not saying that im so awesome i am very offended by that.
and sorry, um, sorry i hurt your feeling, but i dont really know you, so i couldnt ever really look up to you.
last word woo! it should be bitch, in general, becasue thats a funny word. but have what im not very sure? perhaps im not being bright again.
good bye.
i dont want any whell-barrows please, but i just adore this drama! i love debates and shitand devils advocate and conflict its quote healthy i believe. so heres my last words:
oh emma i have to say as well...nicely done...very nicely done i just love it when ppl stick it to those up tight christian assholes who think they are better than everyone...bravo
okay i think i'm finally ready to reply to this. i know you've kind of ended this crazy discussion that my one little entry started.
yes i do openly complain about things...don't we all? i'm not going to lie i'm not a big fan of the church or hi league as a whole. i do feel like a lot of people are judgemental but have i ever called you judgemental? i don't recall saying that ever. on the other hand i really love and respect a lot of people at church too. not everyone is close minded and judgemental.
what actions are you "judging?" my belief that gay marriage is accptable. is that really wrong of me to think? i know it's against the Bible but i don't think our government can limit people baised on that. you've never even heard my whole opinion on all of that.
i think the thing that hurts the most is you said i don't want anything to do with god? what gives either of you the right to say that! you don't know what i want!? i believe in god...i want something to do with him so please don't tell me i don't. gosh! and putting on a face! do i walk around saying i'm a perfect christian! i haven't denounced my faith or anything. i don't understnad that.
what do you mean your done? what's pauls teaching? i don't understand that either.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
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emma - do you know why religous freedom was written into the Consitution - which is meant to be read with the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights - no document was meant to be read without the other two - do you know? It was because every non-Anglican in England was being persecuted, and they could not practice their faith. The freedom of religion the forefathers had in mind was freedom to practive any Christian faith without fear of persecution. Since the Enlightenment, this has been twisted over and over again. They're rolling in their graves!!
And why do you think this is about religion? It's about God - you know all this already!! You know he defined love in 1 John, as Jay quoted above, and you know he defined marriage, from Genesis 2, also above. And why are you twisting what Jay said and taking it out of context? Here's what he said:
"marriage is about love, and if you don't agree with the bible on this topic then you aren't going to agree with the bible on anything. because the bible clearly states what love is." copied and pasted straight from him. "this topic" is love and marriage, and about the fact that GOD IS LOVE - not gay marriage, and then you continue on to compare this debate to theological debates such as predestination and such? It is not a sin to have questions about things God was not clear about in his word (homosexuality not being one of them). Predestination is not salvation-specific, and therefore you caanot compare the two discussions. And from there to comparing proponents of gay marriage to the Israelites fleeing Egyptian rule? You're brighter than that. You clearly didn't spend time reading and weighing anything either of us has said.
jay wanted to add this, too... Tomatojay0: she says she hates people making opions about her based on her lj, but then see calls me a homophobe based on what i post
and i want to add - you respond as if you only skim our postings, while I get up early and do research before I respond to yours, after thoroughly reading them and weighing your view and the research - we both have shown you respect through all of this.
btw - if you told me you were a lesbian, here's what I might say: "I don't condone the action, but I don;t condemn you - not my right as a person that already stands condemned without the blood of Christ. " But, yeah, you would not be able to experience pure godly joy, the best high there is (and I've had a lot of high's).
Here's the last thing Jay and I want to say - and this is for both you and amanda, and Jay and I have both discussed this at length, and he wants you to know its from him as much as it is from me. You openly complain about church, about the people there, about hi-league and about leadership and about how you feel like everyone is judging you. But they aren't judging you all the time, we aren't right now. we are just judging your actions based on what the bible says, not you as a person. But it you still feel that way, then stop going. If you want nothing to do with God - which is evident - stop putting on the face and going. If you want to just "be yourself", go do that.
But we're done. It hurts tremendously to see people who once looked up to you slam doors in your face, but we have to be done. It's Paul's teaching. We have tried to talk with you - others have done what they saw fit, and so now we're done. We know you won't understand that pain, but hopefully someday this will happen to you, and you will understand how it feels to be where we are.
And emma, we'll allow you to have the last word in all this - you probably would say something anyway after this post because we don't feel like we have to have it. So go ahead.
Good-bye
and God bless - if you're anywhere near where I was in high school, you'll need it by the wheel-barrow.
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i do not think that forefathers only wnated freedom for christians, and if they did only want that, which it sounds like thats what youre saying, then they are doing the exact same thing that caused them to screw england and come to ameria. they are rolling in their graves because everyone gets religious freedom? god, thats awful.
stop telling me im bright. i hate it when people do that, its so demeaning to say theat youre not doing what youre capable of, when others dont even know. but i dont even know what youre talking about either so done with that one. and i was just saying that jay said you dont agree with one thing you dont agree with everything. i find that faulty.
didnt call a homophobe, only asked if he was...already addressed.
sometimes i do only skim becasue therye boring to me, i go with what i know and what ive learned blah blah blah.
you say that like you think i actually am a lesbian, all that cra love the sinner hate the sin. and good for you that you have highs all right, that helps me zero, and its not my buisness either, highs or lows.
yes i hate church, i go to see my friends, i dont care if i say that, or maybe i am just saying all of this becasue i like conflict or maybe i just like playing devils advocate. and i do NOT put on the face i am very offended by that becasue i never go around saying I AM AN EXCELLENT CHRISTIAN! thats so dumb anyways, bragging about how good it is for you when othe people go through shit and im not saying that im so awesome i am very offended by that.
and sorry, um, sorry i hurt your feeling, but i dont really know you, so i couldnt ever really look up to you.
last word woo! it should be bitch, in general, becasue thats a funny word. but have what im not very sure? perhaps im not being bright again.
good bye.
i dont want any whell-barrows please, but i just adore this drama! i love debates and shitand devils advocate and conflict its quote healthy i believe. so heres my last words:
what would you do if god was dead?
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:)
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and thumbs up to you too!!
:D
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yes i do openly complain about things...don't we all? i'm not going to lie i'm not a big fan of the church or hi league as a whole. i do feel like a lot of people are judgemental but have i ever called you judgemental? i don't recall saying that ever. on the other hand i really love and respect a lot of people at church too. not everyone is close minded and judgemental.
what actions are you "judging?" my belief that gay marriage is accptable. is that really wrong of me to think? i know it's against the Bible but i don't think our government can limit people baised on that. you've never even heard my whole opinion on all of that.
i think the thing that hurts the most is you said i don't want anything to do with god? what gives either of you the right to say that! you don't know what i want!? i believe in god...i want something to do with him so please don't tell me i don't. gosh! and putting on a face! do i walk around saying i'm a perfect christian! i haven't denounced my faith or anything. i don't understnad that.
what do you mean your done? what's pauls teaching? i don't understand that either.
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